Hi, in Raw Cards with Near Mint / Mint description I find you can really get anything. I’ve had some good scores and some bummers but I get some that look really good, but turn a light on and surprise! There has developed a premium to this NM/M with recent price increases and requesting extra images is often finding the card sold before they do so, or they just cant be bothered. So you have to take a chance, or not buy anything at all.
This is one of those cards that look great with front and back shots but not when angled. What condition is this to you? and what do you feel when these cards are just pictured front and back on avoiding showing what I have pictured, whether the seller noticed it or not. This isn’t a ‘why didnt I get a PSA 10 card from a NM/M listing’. I just want to learn more about others expectations and at what point you get a bit miffed with a near mint/mint card.
I also get we are not professional graders, and yes buying graded prevents this, but there isn’t always the cards you want in a graded slab to choose from.
A PSA 6 is Exellent-Mint
A PSA 7 is Near Mint
A PSA 8 is Near Mint-Mint
Yer, Im just trying to establish peoples expectation of a near mint/mint card so I can work better with it. The only step up is mint. When a cards holo looks like its been scratched on the floor, does this still sit comfortably in near mint condition. The word mint is a strong word to be throwing around
Its not quite what I want for my binder, so it goes into my relist pile for one day in the future.
Personally, I would never call a PSA 8 card NM-Mint. Maybe NM, but a PSA 8 card is never ‘mint,’ so it’s at best misleading. That aside, my approach is to just either buy from sellers that I know and like the condition standards of, or to buy from people who take honest photos. I ignore any listing where the card is photographed on a white background (which is a highly dishonest practice, IMO) or where the photos are at angles where it appears the seller is trying to obscure the condition of the card. This saves me from a lot of hassle – it’s just not worth anyone’s time/money to return/dispute items. I’d rather pay twice as much for a card and get it right the first time.
The card you attached photos of I would personally list as ‘EX’ or with no assigned condition at all. It looks like a nice card, but it wouldn’t qualify as NM to me primarily because of the corner lift. But I wouldn’t be surprised if you could sell it for a NM price because many would likely consider that NM. Because of that, it probably makes sense to just list it with no condition descriptor at all. The photo you attached of the lift is the perfect way to exhibit that flaw, and the buyer will make the assessment themselves as to whether or not they’re okay with it.
Some “near mint - mint” cards, at least by PSA standards, are ugly! (My least favorite thing on a card is probably scratches, and PSA 8 cards can be covered in them!)
Yeah, I learned this hard way lol. I cracked a PSA 8 HL Metagross ex for my set and I had to exclude it because the amount of scratching actually makes it less shiny, if that makes sense (like a layer of gloss was removed). It’s looks like someone rubbed it with steel wool…
I do have 1 seller that i’ve been very impressed with and I buy from nearly every day, he doesnt actually use condition, its just used with the best pictures. Im in the UK and can say that is the only seller ive found. Any other auction labeled mint goes up towards 9-10 Grade Value. Yes im excluding the chewed soggy cards that someone copys a title and smacks mint PSA10!! in
In my Head when I read NM-M, I hear Near Mint too Mint Condition. But there is Mint in the PSA 6 label.
I also see this Card is EX or just used. If Near mint-mint is acceptable then I should probably change up how I sell things
I’d be curious how others would grade this in PSA standards. I think without the scratches we’re looking at a 9(?) but what about with the scratches, or with say 7 light scratches or 3? To your point,I wouldnt know what to call this card. Exc-NM? Would PSA knock it down to a 5 or leave it around a 7? I think we could use PSAs grading terms if we could spitball what this card’s number would be. I’d like to be able to do that, and have that knowledge for my own listings.
@justmatt, so theres a lot to unravel here, but ill see what I can mention to help.
Theres a reason people pay premiums for graded cards. I myself was so sick and tired of going from listing to listing buying then regretting because of scratches or unwanted damage on things listed as mint, or near mint, or whatever the sellers tried to describe. But at the end of it all, thats why I settled on grabbing psa graded cards being that the standard allowed me to better find the cards i was looking for, sure this packs that premium, but thats the price you have to pay in wanting things in a top specified shape.
This being said, the idea of NM/Mint or any condition is all completely subjective at the end of the day. For example, to me a near mint card has few scratches, but id be ok with whitening to a degree. Someone elses idea might be vastly different than mine. However, at the end of the day you have to assume that these things ultimately are used to drive a sale forward as opposed to giving an exact detailed description of how the card looks. Someone says “nm” and instantly that triggers that desire to buy, meanwhile we forget that these things are all subjective as i mentioned which then leads to disappointment upon arrival. Some things to also note here is how old a lot of these items are. Some exceed around 20+ years old and yet its so easy to not account for these matters. I have other items ive kept for 20+ years in boxes and even those things have been subject to damage. Its just the risk that comes with time + heavily demanded and desired collectables.
This all being stated, where does one go from here? Well what i do is i personally always try to get pictures of what im buying to where i can see all flaws if any if im going the raw route. But if im going for cards which are high value or hard to locate, I opt to hit the psa graded route and save to shovel out the premium that comes with it. All and all, it can be a frustrating cycle and process of trail and error to see what works best for you, but keeping the mentioned points i listed in mind during it all could help better in decision making when those times come. Just try to be easy on yourself through and through because i know how it can easily lead to those hair pulling moments with sayings like “how is this near mint?!?” or “I paid X for this?!!?”, and i say this because ive said those exact things. Collecting isnt a race, rather a slow, slow journey to getting all the great things we want and desire, and patience is key.
Just look at the pictures and decide yourself. All those nm/m classifications are very subjective and usually do not reflect the real condition of a card.
Thanks for that, It does help. Im hoping there is perhaps a turn in listing standards in the near future, in the sense of pictures and descriptions. Not just a title copy and front and back picture. The asking picture route is pretty much required on every card I look at. When a seller lists 10 cards and im interested in them all, Its literally a given that I have to say can I have better images of all your cards but it just isnt time efficient as often they come back with images no more helpful that the first.
Cards that are becoming £40+ are no longer deck fillers for using, pretty much every card is being bought for display use.
Id love to hear what mint / non graded card collectors do with this, or maybe most of them have come from times where opening packs was cost effective.
As you say condition is all completely subjective, comparing to graders I was just trying to use this card as an example to see what the current near mint-mint banner withholds. It seems from the replys already its pretty normal to get disappointed
I prefer when sellers use the terms plus or minus with near mint because the range is so big for that term and can be misleading to buyers. Near mint plus I would expect to see something that PSA would likely give an 8. For minus I would expect around 6-7. Near mint 7-8. But this is just how I rationalize the “near mint” scale but sadly the difficulty in locking down a system that works is that people don’t agree on what the term should be and not everyone has a good eye for grading. Makes buying raw cards a challenge.
If you haven’t done business with the seller, don’t overpay for the card because they list it as NM/Mint unless they have good photos at different angles. For years I have been buying raw cards that appeared mint and if they weren’t psa 10s or a strong 9 I would tuck them away and say oh well. Well now those 7, 8 and 9 quality cards I tucked away have appreciated so much in value I’m glad I still have them.
As previously mentioned, grading is subjective and different people have differing opinions on what constitutes a specific grade. However I think we can come to somewhat of a consensus on what we want when we say near mint or mint, as there are glaring defects that should NOT be on a near mint to mint card. I understand the idea of comparing listed grades to PSA grading standards (near mint to mint = PSA 8), but if you have that mentality…you will be disappointed with most purchases.
I’ve found that a lot of people who sell Pokemon cards will use hot-ticket terminology without truly understanding what it means (without assuming they’re trying to scam) to sell their items for more money. This applies to all the 1st edition shadowless descriptions of cards that aren’t 1st edition or shadowless, but to condition descriptions as well. Most people will use the near mint to mint description because that is what buyers want and they probably don’t want to undersell their items.
Personally, I combat this by checking out the seller first and looking through their recent feedback on other raw cards they have sold as well as checking out their negative feedback. Granted I will still purchase a card with it’s condition overstated at times, but this is the best way to prevent purchasing nm-mint cards which aren’t even near mint. You can always ask the seller for more pictures and as you show in your post, angled pictures in the light are best at checking for holo scratches.
Overall, there is never a guarantee that the card(s) you purchase will be in the condition you expect (even PSA graded) because grading is subjective. So you must do your due diligence to find the condition you want listed by a reputable seller and if the card doesn’t meet your standards, you can always request a return!
I entirely agree that grading is subjective and people aren’t always ‘trying to scam’ when selling Pokemon cards using ‘hot-ticket terminology’ (i.e., MINT or PSA???). But using that terminology incorrectly, when coupled with photos that don’t clearly and accurately exhibit the condition of the card(s), is seller malpractice – even if unintentional.
The way to solve this is as follows: people on eBay should stop getting caught up with the terminology and just take decent photos. I’ve sold many thousands of cards on eBay over the past decade+ and have literally never had a return request or INAD case opened against me. Not saying this to pat myself on the back or anything, but returns and condition discrepancies are an ENTIRELY avoidable reality.
For non-holo cards, all it takes is one relatively close-up photo of the front and one of the back, on a flat, dark backdrop, with decent lighting and a non-potato camera. And then extra photos if necessary to exhibit any creases or other significant flaws that weren’t visible in the first two photos. I’ve honestly been astonished by how poorly Pokemon sellers exhibit the condition of their cards. I try to do my part to positively reinforce this by almost exclusively purchasing from sellers with good photos.
NM/M is such a unique category. Its almost close to mint and you often hear some people say I’ve had better 8s than 10s.
In my experience 8 can have a bunch of small issues or one large issue and that the knocks it down.
the amount of scratches that you can have on an 8 is actually surprising. Which is probably why so many binder collectors are unsatisfied with 8s when they buy them for collecting. I’ve sold raw cards that were 8s that some were unhappy with because of scratches. Even scratches at weird angles that you can see in a binder page. I don’t grade it because the scratches will make it a likely 8 but the back is fine. For a binder set collector, they care about the front more. To them they deduct any front damage harsher than PSA would.
Overall, it’s subjective and you have to pay attention to the collection goals of the buyer. If they are grading or binder or investing People now haha.
Nope. If I was selling this card I would list as having light scratches and labeled as near mint. Near Mint/Mint is reserved only for the cleanest cards I sell. May still have 1-2 factory lines or 1 rogue scratch is everything else is perfect. It needs to be a PSA 8 quality for me to label it as NM/M.
You are right that the the near mint designation is all over the place. There are problems when cards get sent to grading, because grading companies impose certain standards (like centering) for grades that seem reasonable but can cause weird price alterations down the road. Or fail to apply a specific standard (seemingly, from the above reference, with holo scratches) and artificially make certain defects less important.
As an example, I used to collect baseball cards. One of the harder sets to get in decent condition was the 1953 Bowman Color Set. These cards were the first to have beautiful photo images the took up the entire front of the card. They were far enough ahead of their time that production costs helped drive Bowman out of the baseball card market. Anyway, before card grading was a big deal, you could have a really nice card with a corner crease that could be graded as high as excellent (PSA 5) to ex-mint (PSA 6), so long as the crease wasn’t easily visible when the card laid flat. It came down to whether the crease detracted from the card’s appeal. A grading decision was made by PSA that no card with a visible crease (as opposed to a soft corner) could obtain a grade higher than Very Good - Excellent (PSA 4). A card with more than a light crease could not get a grade above Very Good(PSA 3). A major crease could get you to PSA 2 as a maximum.
I was collecting this set as a binder set, something to show and discuss with fellow baseball fanatics who remembered the players. I was stymied because many of the cards were (and still are) rather expensive. After the PSA grading change there were major dislocations for the cards I desired. Almost overnight the price of the key card in the set - Mickey Mantle (Think base set Charizard) dropped by 60%. I was able get a beautiful card, but with a crease noticeable under close inspection, for a song. I was even able to trade a new, hot rookie card to get it. Other pricey cards that weren’t Mantle dropped by an even higher percentage. I can pass my full set around without fear. The creases have set a value that the look of the cards otherwise exceed by a lot. In other words the set looks much better than it would ever grade.
This would be a major problem for an investor. As we are now seeing, the price differences between 7 and 8 and 9 are steepening. PSA 10 pricing is even crazier. If you have decided to live with slabbed cards, be thankful that the PSA grades of Pokemon cards is as lenient as it is. It shouldn’t matter if PSA graded so harsh that every card averaged a grade lower. Population differences would still follow the same distribution curve, only a number lower. But I very much doubt prices would increase as much if PSA 9 sets were the best you could hope for. There is something too satisfying about obtaining a 3rd-party verification of perfection.
