Recently as most of you know, I had sent off a decent amount of pack fresh Shadowless holos!
Looking over them before hand to the best of my abilities, none had that bad of OC’ness, or any crazy pack damage, or even silvering for that matter.
Of course, I was looking forward to this send off very much, since it included none other then a Charizard. At the same I was sending mine in, a buddy was sending one he had purchased off ebay recently. He was expecting a 7, while a 9 on my end.
Fast forward a bit, we both got our grades back the same day and both got an 8
Yes, I’m aware pack fresh cards can get an 8, or even lower, but with this comparison I’m just left thinking…
**WTF PSA.
I would say that this is one of those cards which would definitely qualify for a regrade to be fair, if it gets an 8 the second time then you must be missing something, though it definitely looks worthy of a 9.
I definitely see the outrage here (once card is clearly in better condition than the other), but in my experience 8 is a very broad grade. I’ve had pack-fresh cards come back as an 8, and I’ve also had cards with very visible edgewear that I was expecting to come back as a 6-7 come back as an 8.
I think a lack of experience/familiarity in the Pokemon hobby in general with cards that are graded 8 or lower contributes a bit to this. There are very few cards anyone would submit when they think it’ll score below an 8, and when you do get an 8, it’s probably on the higher-end of the 8 grade. While I know you’ve probably checked this card over multiple times, small scratches combined with edgewear like I see on your card has given me 8s in the past.
I think your card was graded fairly, I definitely have 8s that look like that. At first glance it looks like a 9, but an 8 is really not far-fetched (no pun intended) as a grade on this card.
The other one, especially with the edgewear at the top and in the bottom left, I find an 8 harder to see, but not outside the realm of possibility. It’s difficult to see how when one card is clearly in much better condition than another they score the same grade, but that’s just how it is sometimes.
90% of the time I would say yours would score a 9 (unless I can’t see something, the white isn’t bad on the back) and his would get a 7. The grades can be broad for sure though.
The bottom left corner on the 1st copy alone should knock it down to at least a 7. That’s not even considering the edgewear on the top, plus any scratches or silvering it may have on the front. That bottom left corner looks pretty rough.
The 2nd one looks like a 9 at least. Unless there’s something else that can’t be seen in the pics, you should definitely send it in again.
They did me with two mint Chinese charizards. One was an actual 9 that I cracked open, the other was to my eye, an even better raw card. Both got 8s. I did it again, both got 8s. In my experience, they are harsher on charizards. This leads me to the conspiracy theory that they try to keep that population low, knowing their monetary worth on the market. By keeping the pop low, it keeps their price high, which also leads to more people submitting to PSA in hopes of a 10. Just my theory.
I AM SORRY I HAVE REFERENCED YOUR CARD A FEW TIMES NOW… BUT IT IS UNFORGIVABLE!!! xD okay but in all serial, psa don’t have the subgrades, so if you look at bgs you will find there be absolute pristine mint 9s like the zam no Raritan I got, with high subgrades but the centers letting it down, and then you have shit bgs mint 9s with low ass subgrades that look like this psa mint 9 zard or worse depending how low… So if psa put subgrades we would see how they mark this stuff precisely… But I find in time you get the hang of it and looking back on this after I have owned and graded such a variety of set cards… It feels different for sure.
This conspiracy theory is total bunk.
But…
The idea that Charizards seem to grade tougher is, well…interesting. I have often wondered about this myself. It’s almost like the graders unconsciously scrutinize the Charizards much closer based on their reputation.
I’ve often wondered the same about Mantles, Koufax’s, Gretskys, Ruth’s, etc.
I sure can because I have intimate knowledge of the inner workings there and have since 1994. Yes, I’m that old .
There is no policy in place which there would have to be for your conspiracy theory to hold any water.
Now an unconscious bias? Hmmmmm…
Not specifically speaking of Charizard here, but I wonder if graders ever have to recuse themselves of grading certain cards? I mean if there was some grader who personally owned 10 base set 1st edition PSA charizards, they would have a personal interest in that population staying as low as possible. Same goes for any high dollar card (note that I used charizard for familiarity here, but in reality there are way bigger fish to fry out there in the sporting world.) I mean if I owned a pop 5 or less card that was a PSA 10 worth over 100k and some auction house submitted a card for grading there would be no way I could be impartial grading that card with the thought of its effect of value in the back of my mind.
Do they have any policy of not grading any cards that they personally own @garyis2000? I would be fairly certain most of them must maintain collections of some sort. Probably some very high tier collections among the graders if I had to guess since their expertise came from being around the hobby for years and years.
Isn’t each card graded by multiple people? If so I imagine that the personal feelings of one of the graders towards a card would be contested by the other who would be impartial if the card was mysteriously undergrads by one.
"In addition, the sheer number of graders assigned to each card can vary depending on the type of card submitted. In all cases, at minimum, two graders are assigned to every card.
Here’s an example – if you were to submit a 1965 Topps Willie Mays – this is how the grading process would work:
Each grader receives the order and they will enter the order number into the computer. Once that is done, the contents of that order will appear on the PSA grading screen. Grader #1 will then enter his grade for the card in question (and for each card within the order until the order is completed if there is more than one card) and close the order on his screen. Once that is done and after redistribution of the order, Grader #2 will do the same – not knowing the opinion of the first grader on any of the cards within that order.
If their grades match in the computer, the card would then eventually reach a 3rd grader for verification of the grade. If the opinion of the first two graders does not match, that card will be assigned to a 3rd grader whose opinion is required to break the tie, so to speak. As with the first example, the card would still be assigned to another grader for verification (a 4th grader in the process) to make sure the grade is accurate and consistent with our standards.
The first stage in the grading process is determining whether the card is authentic. With the values of some trading cards today, counterfeits are not uncommon on some of the hobby’s biggest stars – especially rookie cards and reprints that are often submitted as originals."
Still though if I own a PSA 10 1965 Topps Willie Mays as a grader I may tend to grade lower overall than others. Weak 10’s may become strong 9’s. Sure it takes the other grader matching to make the grade stick, but overall if one grader is tending lower for any reason then on the long term less PSA 10’s will still happen overall.
A thieving liquor store clerk may not ring up an item and stick the money in his pocket.
A Lowlife PokeSeller may weigh packs.
A crooked politician may grant favors for large donors.
A cop may let a girl in a speeding car off without a ticket for her phone number.
In all walks of life there’s losers but most people in all fields are reputable and honest. This is most certainly true at PSA.
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