Buyers of PSA 9s and Lower Beware

I’ve noticed something particularly disturbing in the market of graded cards that I would like to share. This may be old news to the veterans out there, but I believe everyone has a right to know this before they lose big time.

I’ll briefly share some of my background and biases. Like many kids in the 90s I became disillusioned with collecting after realizing that Beckett’s inflated Price Guides didn’t pan out when I took my cards to the shops. No surprises there. Today the market is much different than it was in 90s, but I’ve found it’s still built on encouraging inflation, misconceptions and miscalculations.

So I’ve been collecting many of my favorite 1st Edition Pokemon cards and opting for the PSA 9s over the 10s because, as many of us know, the visual appeal between a 9 and a 10 is usually insignificant and we’ve all heard stories about 9s being cracked, resubmitted and returning as a 10. Grading is done by humans and is still a subjective process. How good of a day your graders are having and what time it is often makes the difference between a 9 and a 10. So I thought, 'no point in paying 4x the price for a 10 over a 9. Also my 9s will appreciate along with the 10s over time.

That last sentence is a totally flawed assumption. I couldn’t have been more wrong.

Awhile ago I took a break from vintage Pokemon and checked on some hall of fame football rookie cards. 1984 Topps John Elway, in particular. I’ll use this card to illustrate my point, although take about any other valuable and circulated card this old and and you’ll find the same trends. Guess how much these are selling for in PSA 10? $2k! Awesome. Out of the price range for most responsible working adults, but awesome nevertheless. But here is where I became horrified: I spotted a PSA 8. How much was the PSA 8 selling for?

Wait for it… Feel free to take a guess before reading further.

Now how much? Wait for it… Wait for it… twenty dollars. What? Yes, that’s right. Only twenty measly dollars, and the seller was even accepting best offers. That can’t be right, I thought. I checked the PSA sale records, and sure enough, it checked out. But how can two grades have a price difference of $1,980, a staggering 10,000% price jump? It makes no sense, coming from Pokemon, where differences in grades are stillreasonably proportional. So I investigated further.

The value of an Elway Topps 1984 PSA 9 is around $135. That’s not 25% of the value of a PSA 10, as you’ll find and have come to expect in most vintage Pokemon right now. That’s 6% of the value of a PSA 10. That means PSA 10s go for 16x as much as PSA 9s in 1984 Topps Football (John Elway and Dan Marino being the two stars in this set). In other words, you can have 16 marginally inferior rookie Elways (PSA 9 – mint condition), for the price of one PSA 10. Total insanity? The gap only continues with time.

‘So what,’ some might say? You don’t think this applies to Pokemon? This is the future of Pokemon. Yes, of course there are differences between football and Pokemon. The two are fundamentally different. But the fundamental problem lies with PSA’s population reports, coupled with unhealthy market practices, and I believe Pokemon will follow the same trends that older sports sets have already seen.

‘Oh, but the population reports of 1984 Topps justify the drastic price difference,’ I can already hear the naysayers chanting. This is where they would be wrong and here’s why:

When a PSA 9 is worth 6% of a PSA 10, it makes perfect financial sense to crack open every PSA 9 you have and resubmit it 16 times until it comes back as a 10 (sans shipping and processing costs, so let’s say only resubmit it 10 times). Some can cry about how this is immoral, blah blah blah, but that doesn’t really matter here. People are doing it and people will do it as long as it is profitable. The market unintentionally encourages this to happen. That is why I believe the market is fundamentally unhealthy. PSA has no way of knowing if a card has been cracked and resubmitted, though of course they know this happens. Therefore the population reports are inaccurate and will always be inaccurate. The fact that these population reports are used as a pricing reference is almost as laughable as my 1999 Beckett Price Guide telling me my non-rookie regular cards were worth $1 and up.

Over time, as long as PSA 10s are more than 16x the value of PSA 9s, the population reports of 9s will increase exponentially as people crack their 9s and resubmit them. Most of these will come back as 9s again, inflating the population of 9s, and making the market think there are more lower grades then there really are. The greater the gap increases, the more incentive there is to continue the trend. Using inaccurate population reports as a basis for pricing leads to market madness and bizarre outcomes like a 10,000% price jump between a PSA 8 and PSA 10 rookie Elway – coming to a Charizard near you.

Every rational financial instinct in my body tells to avoid these cards like the plague, yet I am under the spell. We all are.

Give this trend a few decades. Eventually vintage Pokemon will have population numbers like 1984 Topps John Elway: 8,000 PSA 8s, 2,500 PSA 9s, 200 PSA 10s. Who knows how many times over those 8s and 9s have been cracked and resubmitted? And do you think resubmitters will have the courtesy to send in their cracked tags? Absolutely not, because that is inconvenient, costs time and money, and would let PSA know you are habitually resubmitting because you can’t mail anonymously and the ID tag can be traced back to your account. The artificially inflated population of 9s and lower coming from resubmitters will decrease the value of PSA 9s until they are worth 6% or less than the value of PSA 10s.

In the future your PSA 9s will not have appreciated; they will have depreciated.

The only solutions to this that I can fathom would be if PSA marked their graded cards with invisible ink to detect resubmission, but I don’t like the idea of my cards being marked with any ink, invisible or not, and I assume most collectors would agree. So then scan each card to an incredible degree of detail and use a machine learning algorithm to “fingerprint” each individual card (could this even be possible AND economically feasible?). The only real solution is for the market to act rationally, which it does not. The value of a PSA 10 should be 10% greater than a PSA 9, not 10x greater than a PSA 9, being that the cards are graded on a scale of 1 to 10. This would make it unprofitable to crack and resubmit cards. Not like that’s ever going to happen, though. The way it actually works is that each grade sells for exponentially higher than the previous grade. It’s a scam that’s worse than the old inflated price guides, but it’s one that we bring on ourselves by putting such a premium on “perfection.”

TLDR:
In conclusion, many collectors like myself may assume they are getting good value by buying PSA 9s instead of 10s. I no longer believe this is the case (and this is by no means a claim that PSA 10s are therefore worth their current price points). Over time PSA 9s will significantly depreciate as collectors resubmit in the chase for higher grades and exponential returns. As long as PSA 10s are bought for exponentially higher prices than 9s, it will be profitable and inevitable that consumers will crack cases and resubmit cards until they receive a higher grade, leading to PSA 9s being worth less than 6% of PSA 10s in the long term. Yes, this is unhealthy, but this is what an unhealthy market encourages.

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Are you going to be joining-in on the Area 51 Raid? LOL

I’m Sorry, but your logic is flawed on some many levels… Sure, you can loosely compare the Pokemon Market to Sports Market to loosely gauge potential value for your “investment” within Pokemon. However, you really cannot literally compare Pokemon to Sports - that’s like comparing Apples to Oranges. There are SO MANY different variables within Sports: the whole 80’s and 90’s Sports Card “Crash”, the fact that Sports Cards are portraying actual people vs. fictional characters, a generally older demographic (Sorry Scott)… Outside of the BIG Sports Cards which won’t ever “die”; Sports Cards in-general are slowly dying.

Everyone knows (or should know) that if you’re strictly concerned about “investments” within PSA and ROI you need to be purchasing PSA 10’s - PSA 9’s just don’t have that same ROI. However, PSA 9’s offer A LOT! Obviously, the pricing is MUCH CHEAPER! They offer an excellent value - generally speaking, you can still pick-up a PSA 9 for cheaper than a Booster Pack. Basically, PSA 9’s are the best bang for your buck - you’re getting the same card / similar condition compared to PSA 10’s.

PSA 9’s within Pokemon have DEFINITELY seen A LOT of Growth! You just need to expand your views - look back 10+ Years. When I first started-out on eBay in 2009, I could buy / sell PSA 9 1st Ed. Base Charizard Cards for $300.00-$400.00 all-day everyday - they were readily available at that price-point. 10 Years later that same card has an increased POP Report from more being graded and people cracking / re-submitting; however, the price-point has also grown DRASTICALLY - following a less (but similar) trend to PSA 10’s.

PSA 9’s within Pokemon won’t ever drastically depreciate, unless PSA 10’s also depreciate.

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I think you put way too much value in pop reports. It’s the card’s actual availability that matters plus how in demand the item is. Look at the Fleer Jordan.

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If you have a card missing from your binder, but you know for a fact that you have it in your sealed product. Would you open your sealed product to complete your collection or keep hunting?:thinking::thinking::face_with_raised_eyebrow::neutral_face::expressionless::no_mouth:

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Are you going to be joining-in on the Area 51 Raid? LOL

I’m already here, working on the inside… It just bothers me that a 32 year old PSA 9 card sells for $100 and the same card PSA 10 sells for $2k. I’m also not one of those guys who’s ever called trading cards an “investment,” so let’s not assume that.

I stopped reading after ‘I’ve noticed’

Can someone fill me in

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Thanks for taking the time to get that all out. One thing I’d suggest is pay a little more attention to supply and demand because pop reports can be a very weak determinate.
An interesting aside, 25 years ago a value estimate for 10s was about 10x that of 9s.

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Tl;dr:BGS

Investing within Pokemon isn’t necessarily something that’s bad - it’s just the way that some people go about solely focusing on Pokemon as an Investment without having / wanting a vested interest within the hobby itself. Heck, if I didn’t view Pokemon as an investment for the long-term myself, I probably wouldn’t have nearly as much as I actually have right now! Haha

I just don’t understand your logic and why it would bother you so much with the difference in pricing between 9’s and 10’s… It’s been like that for as long as I can remember - and I’ve been actively following Pokemon for awhile now! PSA 9’s have always been considered a “value” purchase whereas PSA 10’s have always been the “best-of-best”. There’s no harm in collecting PSA 9’s - and I can almost guarantee that you’ll see an increase in any PSA 9 WotC Holo Card if you’re willing to purchase and hold that card for the long-term!

It’s important to just be happy with your own collection and understand that there’s ALWAYS going to be someone who spends multiples more than you do on cardboard!

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Yes, I agree. I would consider an investor someone who maxes out their Roth IRA, at least meets their employer’s 401k match, and has a healthy mix of stocks and bonds. Maybe a single digit percentage of this portfolio can go to collectables, trading cards, etc. The whole Pokemon/Magic/Yugioh as investment vehicles in themselves I find ridiculous.

My assumption was that by buying 9s I was getting good value. Now I’m not so sure.

That is interesting, Gary. Not everyone has access to this information.

Like I said, if grading values were proportional, a 10 would go for 10% higher than a 9. It obviously doesn’t. It’s exponential. So what I would like to know is when PSA designed their grading system, was their an expectation that some 9s would sell for exponentially less than 10s? It seems like an unintended consequence to me.

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This couldn’t have been said any better… honestly, I get tired of hearing “Pokemon” and “Investment” in the same sentence. I feel like a broken record, buy what you like and enjoy, if it appreciates great! If it doesn’t it still has sentimental value or you just enjoy the artwork of the card. It still does kind of baffle me a little about the price difference of a 9/10 as they are both pretty minty cards. I have seen it on multiply replies on the forum, you buy the card, not the grade.

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PSA10 Fleer Jordan goes for about 5x what a PSA9 does, 10x a PSA 8. Same goes for 1st Ed. Base Set Charizard.

Look at cards like 1st Neo Genesis Suicune 14, however, and the 10s are 10x more than PSA9. I don’t think those premiums are justified, but it’s a wild, irrational market.

I hope PSA 9s drop to 6% the value of a 10, I would start buying multiple of each 1st ed wotc set

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It just depends upon your viewpoint… PSA 9’s do offer GREAT VALUE! You’re getting a MINT Condition Card that frankly doesn’t look much different than the PSA 10 Counter-Part! There are plenty of collectors (myself included) who are perfectly fine collecting PSA 9’s since you’re able to build your collection much quicker and for much cheaper. However, there are also collectors who don’t mind paying the premium attached with PSA 10’s in-order to achieve the best-of-the-best cards for their collection. It all just depends upon your personal preference and budget.

The cost basis between 9’s and 10’s has always (and always will be) exponential - it has never (and never will be) as simple as a uniform percentage between grades (PSA 1 + 10% = PSA 2, PSA 2 +10% = PSA 3…). If that were the case, you’d either need PSA 10’s to drastically decrease in price, or PSA 1’s to drastically increase in price - which won’t ever happen because the supply isn’t uniform between quantity of Played Cards vs. MINT Cards. You can obviously find a lot more Played Cards vs. MINT Cards.

It all just boils-down to Supply and Demand. Supply for PSA 10’s is usually always less than PSA 9’s - thus the higher price-point. Demand for both grades is high; however, generally-speaking, people going after PSA 10’s have deeper pockets (combined with fewer available copies on the market).

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Depends on what you want out of it. Are you interested in purely money and what it will be worth? Are you in it for nostalgia and it brought you here because you loved it as a kid? That will usually decide what you like more.

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#14 Suicune is in neo revelations not neo genesis fyi

PSA 9 wotc holos are the cheapest option for a mint card. The value is inherent.

Pokémon cards are younger, have a more robust interest, and already have more growth & activity in lower grades. The football card example says more about Football than Pokémon; the John Elway rookie has much more supply and less demand.

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It is not as easy as you say to just crack open a PSA 9 and grade it a 10. They are the exception to the rule and there have been ‘lax’ grading periods but it is easy to tell a PSA 9 from a PSA 10 candidate as a majority.

A better warning might be people who pay premiums for ex PSA 9 cards now in a BGS 9.5 case. Some people equate the BGS 9.5 gem mint to have a good chance to cross over for PSA gem mint.

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@purpleeyedduelist, you have missed an important point. The 10s are too few to meet the demand and 9s are the cheaper (and better option). Maybe the 9s will see their pop inflated, ok, but it seems unlikely to have a great depreciation… just consider that a large amount of medium collectors go for the 9s.

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