Where do you sit on the debate between collectors and investors in Pokémon?
A investor/poketuber has received backlash on his latest video telling collectors “maybe this hobby isn’t for you” which has flamed further tensions between investors and collectors.
In my opinion the investment element doesn’t exist without the collectors.
But does the collecting element exist without the investment?
Where would you draw the moral line (if there is a line to be drawn)?
Should everyone have an even slice of the Pokémon pie?
Could there even be more players involved?
Poketubers v Investors v Collectors v Scalpers
This juvenile tribalism isn’t surprising really since people don’t like rational, balanced or objective viewpoints anymore; they’re not attention-grabbing or sexy enough.
The boring truth is simply that you can be both a collector and investor, and there is nothing inherently wrong, either morally or otherwise, with being either.
I’d wager there’s a good proportion of e4 users who engage with both collecting and ‘investing’ in the TCG, but being a serious collectors’ forum it’s likely that most e4 users would predominantly identify themselves as collectors. Conversely, you browse r/Pokeinvesting and it’s clear what the priority of their user base is. Even so, that subreddit will no doubt have its cross section of people who also enjoy collecting the cards.
It’s all born out of this modern sense of people needing to have a group identity. For some people, it’s simply not enough for humanity to exist across different communities, enjoy various hobbies or have diverse political views without identifying as something. And naturally, people who identify as ‘the other thing’ are wrong and stupid.
I do not think that I am qualified enough to make a comment on collecting vs investing etc, but I do know one thing that all of us who are in the hobby space in whatever capacity can do with a bit more of empathy.
For me personally I know I cannot solve any problems for anyone with regards to this hobby and I cant even try to make someone feel better. However, at least I can hold space for an try to understand my fellow collectors emotional experiences.
Usually the case with me and also by observing others, I know that we tend to create more suffering than we need to because of how we perceive things (lost mail, product not in stock, bots scalping everything etc). But we can still validate someone else’s emotional experience and really try to understand where they’re coming from. I know that if I try to understand where someone is coming from, it will at least give me an opportunity to share an alternate perspective which someone may have missed.
I think what it comes down to is, sometimes people just want to know that they’re being understood, more than have someone else try to solve their problems for them, whichever side you are on. We can be a little bit more kinder and nicer!
But does the collecting element exist without the investment?
Well yes, 100%. That’s how it has been for 15+ years before the “investing” side got mainstream.
Poketubers v Investors v Collectors v Scalpers
Well, I’d say many of those groups overlap. Almost all Pokétubers are collectors of some kind and there are surely also Pokétubers seeing themselves as investors. The line between scalpers and investors is also not quite clear cut (like how long does one have to keep products to call themselves an investor instead of a scalper?) and as it was mentioned, there are surely also investors that also have a personal collection of cards, making them collectors as well.
This YouTuber is the perfect voice to just ignore.
I think we have all heard the voice of these people before. They are more interested in the business/money side than any of the positive collecting side.
In my opinion, if you’re planning on collecting and staying in the hobby for more than a year or two, their comments and talking points mean nothing.
This is a very tired and boring debate. Investment potential in the hobby wouldn’t exist without collectors and players. It is annoying to see what are essentially still toys at their core being elevated to the level of “investment”. Yes money making is possible but at some point it drains the fun for me personally. Hope bro/sis gets whatever clicks they hoped for that video
I am a collector and a very small scale investor. Being in the hobby for many years I see the upside in some products so I stash a few and sell later on when it goes up but the big difference which many people cannot differentiate is that I only do it to fund more cards. I am not doing this as an income stream (that is what my job is for lol) but morons on the internet these days cannot see the difference and only think that unless you are opening everything you are a bad person. Unfortunately we have gotten to the point where I feel (and I tell my wife this all the time) that I had more fun collecting when it was not popular to do.
I actually think we entered a new age of this debate without people realizing it.
“Investor vs Collector” has been beat to death on this forum. At this point most people are both to some degree or another.
But I would say a new challenger has entered the arena. Born of the hypebeast/crypto/gambling culture. There’s this make-money-fast rise-and-grind pack opening addict/vintage hater type of person that really has become the dominant breed of person in the hobby. They fit into neither the collecting or investing bucket.
It’s like a collector likes the cards first and foremost. And investor likes the money. But this third group really just likes the dopamine rush.
I could say more, and probably will because I’m sure this topic will come up again
Ignoring the youtuber in question who I dont care for, i think it is silly that people care so much in either direction, though I find myself less sympathetic to people who are caught in the modern hype bubble. I think being level headed is hard to come by and posts like the reddit one show this well. Crying scalper or evil investor is about as effective as going outside in the winter and yelling at the sun to warm things up.
I try to “do my part” and educate people on how to get past not having product on the closest target’s shelf, but there is only so much you can do. I wont dare to say people are entitled!, but perhaps someone else here can
Saying to leave the hobby is a bit harsh, but if people took breaks theyd likely be much happier, so its whatever
This youtuber is probably the worst messenger and has been banned from E4 for years because of their toxic and aggressive behavior. They’re looking for a fight on everything, and they got it.
I can’t really add anything beyond what others, especially @Josh, have said on the modern need to define oneself within a group category. I also think the new breed of “collector” that @pfm mentioned is definitely here and needs some further discussion! I’m not the person to opine because I largely stay away from social media and the modern hype, but I’d love to hear from others that are more plugged into that side.
My big issue with him telling people to “leave the hobby” in the way he did is that it is very obviously not a hobby for him. It is something he is treating as his job and clearly here to make money off of. In my opinion that is different than a hobby.
Who here calls their job a hobby? Very very few of us
He and some other similar youtubers have a sense of business relationships and the logical nature of buying and selling cardboard. Thing is, we dont live in a rational or logical world. Emotion is a huge factor (maybe the biggest) for people. The reality of seeing nothing on target’s shelf (and many other places) and then seeing NN with cases of modern collecting dust feels shitty, even if the two arent related.
My take is the new breed is the type that is completely plugged in and hyper focused on the here and now. The hobby to them is the social aspect. The YouTube videos, the scalper drama, the new set releases, the Instagram posts/stories/comments, etc… This is essentially what new collectors are immediately introduced to and for them it’s what the hobby is.
imo the modern collector pipeline almost always starts with the keyword: investment or stonks. Social media brought upon this new generation of flippers, scalpers, raw hunters, etc. The general populace mind chases whats popular and want to flex what others don’t have.
It almost feels like the norm for new collectors to only care about what their collection is worth instead of any emotional value.
The Collector pipeline: stonking/investing ↔ modern → vintage → mid-era? → gold stars → degen? → rare/niche cards
