ex series print sizes?

[modestmudkip]

Is there any more info on this besides the fact that they are scarce and starting with the 2 first gold star sets they become progressively more available/printed (still pretty scarce though)?

[zorloth]

Nope. All that is clear is that the print runs were orders of magnitude smaller than all WotC sets except for the e-Series sets (which appear to have had comparable print runs to the early EX-series sets). There are some other nuances, like how the print runs vary from set to set, though. It’s not entirely accurate to say that the print runs increased starting with TRR. Emerald, for instance, appears to have had a smaller print run than sets like Hidden Legends or FRLG. And FRLG appears to have had a larger print run than almost any EX-series set besides Power Keepers and maybe Crystal Guardians. And on that note, Power Keepers is also clearly the EX-series set with the highest print run. But your observation that the print run sizes generally increased over time seems correct.

[jonandek]

Given the recent price increases of the EX cards, I expect that there will be some increase of the pop for those cards over the next 12-18 months. Order of magnitude TBD. After that I think it would be possible to use the pop report for EX cards as a decent proxy for print run size relative to other EX sets. Differences in EX pull rates plus the addition of gold stars in the mix make it very imperfect though. This has already been done in some other forum threads based on the current PSA pops.

To compare against e-series sets, one could adjust gold star rarity against crystal rarity. This also has its major flaws, but I don’t think it’s a terrible proxy and it is directionally useful. This has also been done before in other recent forum threads.

While not perfect, these directional analyses support what Zorloth said.

[modestmudkip]

@jonandek

Given the recent price increases of the EX cards, I expect that there will be some increase of the pop for those cards over the next 12-18 months. Order of magnitude TBD. After that I think it would be possible to use the pop report for EX cards as a decent proxy for print run size relative to other EX sets. Differences in EX pull rates plus the addition of gold stars in the mix make it very imperfect though. This has already been done in some other forum threads based on the current PSA pops.

To compare against e-series sets, one could adjust gold star rarity against crystal rarity. This also has its major flaws, but I don’t think it’s a terrible proxy and it is directionally useful. This has also been done before in other recent forum threads.

While not perfect, these directional analyses support what Zorloth said.

I am expecting a jump as well. For people like myself gen 3 has a special place. I bought and played with the og wotc cards a ton when I was young, but I was too young to really play the games. I remember gen 3 games as my first real video games and they hold a special spot for me. I imagine many others in their 20s feel the same way about gen 3

[sacari]

@jonandek

Given the recent price increases of the EX cards, I expect that there will be some increase of the pop for those cards over the next 12-18 months.

I agree with this but if anything I think it will help create a market for these cards and possibly increase the price.

As for print size of ex series sets I think the only thing comparable is the WOTC e series sets. And it seems that roughly the later an ex series set was the higher of a print run it had.

[modestmudkip]

@sacari

@jonandek

Given the recent price increases of the EX cards, I expect that there will be some increase of the pop for those cards over the next 12-18 months.

I agree with this but if anything I think it will help create a market for these cards and possibly increase the price.

As for print size of ex series sets I think the only thing comparable is the WOTC e series sets. And it seems that roughly the later an ex series set was the higher of a print run it had.

I only ask because since im in the box market rn, I look at all boxes and am always shocked to see just how hard it is to find ex boxes. Like I can find 12 fossil jungle base gym boxes no effort but have usually 1 choice for each ex set

[jonandek]

FWIW, I am quite bullish on EX series prices. I don’t see them coming down despite the pop increases. As I have been collecting them I have generally seen prices accelerate. Lots to offer for collectors, even taking the nostalgia factor aside. I have had a blast collecting them myself.

[zorloth]

@modestmudkip

@sacari

I agree with this but if anything I think it will help create a market for these cards and possibly increase the price.

As for print size of ex series sets I think the only thing comparable is the WOTC e series sets. And it seems that roughly the later an ex series set was the higher of a print run it had.

I only ask because since im in the box market rn, I look at all boxes and am always shocked to see just how hard it is to find ex boxes. Like I can find 12 fossil jungle base gym boxes no effort but have usually 1 choice for each ex set

EX boxes are not just so much rarer because of the lower print runs, though. This is conjecture, but I think that much fewer people saved booster boxes during the EX-era than during the WotC era. Because Pokemon was at its low point during the EX-era, I imagine that people were less likely to view Pokemon cards as a viable investment vehicle. During the craze of 1999-2000, consumer confidence in the TCG was much higher, and so I think people were more likely to save boxes back then. And not just in terms of the raw numbers of boxes saved – but I mean proportional to the amount of people purchasing product. So I think people were more inclined to open EX-series product.

And there are two other factors at play here, as well:

1. The introduction of chase cards in the form of exs and gold stars. Chase cards with low pull rates result in large amounts of product being opened. In my opinion, this is why EX Deoxys boxes, for instance, are so much rarer than EX Sandstorm boxes. All the relevant data suggest that EX Sandstorm had a smaller print run than EX Deoxys. Yet EX Sandstorm boxes are much easier to find sealed – which I think is attributable to the fact that the EX Deoxys had more exciting chase cards with much lower pull rates.

2. I think that booster boxes also made up a smaller proportion of the print run of EX-series sets than of WotC sets. My reason for thinking this is that the EX-series brought along with it a variety of supplementary products that didn’t exist for WotC sets – one example being tins. The remnants of my childhood collection include dozens of empty EX-series tins – which makes me think that booster boxes contributed to a smaller portion of the print run than for WotC sets, simply because a lot of product that was distributed to sate demand was in tins, not booster boxes.

[zorloth]

@modestmudkip

@jonandek

Given the recent price increases of the EX cards, I expect that there will be some increase of the pop for those cards over the next 12-18 months. Order of magnitude TBD. After that I think it would be possible to use the pop report for EX cards as a decent proxy for print run size relative to other EX sets. Differences in EX pull rates plus the addition of gold stars in the mix make it very imperfect though. This has already been done in some other forum threads based on the current PSA pops.

To compare against e-series sets, one could adjust gold star rarity against crystal rarity. This also has its major flaws, but I don’t think it’s a terrible proxy and it is directionally useful. This has also been done before in other recent forum threads.

While not perfect, these directional analyses support what Zorloth said.

I am expecting a jump as well. For people like myself gen 3 has a special place. I bought and played with the og wotc cards a ton when I was young, but I was too young to really play the games. I remember gen 3 games as my first real video games and they hold a special spot for me. I imagine many others in their 20s feel the same way about gen 3

Same exact feeling for me. My first game was Crystal, but Ruby, and to a lesser extent LeafGreen, are the games that I really have the most nostalgia for. My card collecting was predominantly from Aquapolis through Delta Species, so Gen 3 was basically my childhood. Although I also love Gens 1 and 2. But 3 will always be my favorite. I’m sure there are a lot of people who experience Gen 3 similar to how we do, but I do still have to imagine that more people experience Gens 1 and 2 in that way. Regardless, I think Gen 3 still has a ton of nostalgia attached to it for so many people. Basically anyone born between 1993 and 1998 will have grown up almost exclusively with Gen 3.

[baccene]

I find myself looking at my Unseen Forces ex cards only 2nd to my base 1st edition cards… if not equal. They are special cards. I sell everything except my ex and base cards. Too freaking hard to get them back.

[modestmudkip]

@zorloth

@modestmudkip

I only ask because since im in the box market rn, I look at all boxes and am always shocked to see just how hard it is to find ex boxes. Like I can find 12 fossil jungle base gym boxes no effort but have usually 1 choice for each ex set

EX boxes are not just so much rarer because of the lower print runs, though. This is conjecture, but I think that much fewer people saved booster boxes during the EX-era than during the WotC era. Because Pokemon was at its low point during the EX-era, I imagine that people were less likely to view Pokemon cards as a viable investment vehicle. During the craze of 1999-2000, consumer confidence in the TCG was much higher, and so I think people were more likely to save boxes back then. And not just in terms of the raw numbers of boxes saved – but I mean proportional to the amount of people purchasing product. So I think people were more inclined to open EX-series product.

And there are two other factors at play here, as well:

1. The introduction of chase cards in the form of exs and gold stars. Chase cards with low pull rates result in large amounts of product being opened. In my opinion, this is why EX Deoxys boxes, for instance, are so much rarer than EX Sandstorm boxes. All the relevant data suggest that EX Sandstorm had a smaller print run than EX Deoxys. Yet EX Sandstorm boxes are much easier to find sealed – which I think is attributable to the fact that the EX Deoxys had more exciting chase cards with much lower pull rates.

2. I think that booster boxes also made up a smaller proportion of the print run of EX-series sets than of WotC sets. My reason for thinking this is that the EX-series brought along with it a variety of supplementary products that didn’t exist for WotC sets – one example being tins. The remnants of my childhood collection include dozens of empty EX-series tins – which makes me think that booster boxes contributed to a smaller portion of the print run than for WotC sets, simply because a lot of product that was distributed to sate demand was in tins, not booster boxes.

That does make sense and its very interesting. Makes the decision of where to put my money even harder

[zorloth]

@modestmudkip

@zorloth

EX boxes are not just so much rarer because of the lower print runs, though. This is conjecture, but I think that much fewer people saved booster boxes during the EX-era than during the WotC era. Because Pokemon was at its low point during the EX-era, I imagine that people were less likely to view Pokemon cards as a viable investment vehicle. During the craze of 1999-2000, consumer confidence in the TCG was much higher, and so I think people were more likely to save boxes back then. And not just in terms of the raw numbers of boxes saved – but I mean proportional to the amount of people purchasing product. So I think people were more inclined to open EX-series product.

And there are two other factors at play here, as well:

1. The introduction of chase cards in the form of exs and gold stars. Chase cards with low pull rates result in large amounts of product being opened. In my opinion, this is why EX Deoxys boxes, for instance, are so much rarer than EX Sandstorm boxes. All the relevant data suggest that EX Sandstorm had a smaller print run than EX Deoxys. Yet EX Sandstorm boxes are much easier to find sealed – which I think is attributable to the fact that the EX Deoxys had more exciting chase cards with much lower pull rates.

2. I think that booster boxes also made up a smaller proportion of the print run of EX-series sets than of WotC sets. My reason for thinking this is that the EX-series brought along with it a variety of supplementary products that didn’t exist for WotC sets – one example being tins. The remnants of my childhood collection include dozens of empty EX-series tins – which makes me think that booster boxes contributed to a smaller portion of the print run than for WotC sets, simply because a lot of product that was distributed to sate demand was in tins, not booster boxes.

That does make sense and its very interesting. Makes the decision of where to put my money even harder

Personally, if the choice was between something like Fossil/Jungle (in either 1st Edition or Unlimited) and an EX-series booster box, the EX-series booster box would be a no-brainer. If the choice was between an e-Series set and an EX-series set, though, it would be tougher for me to decide. Ultimately, you should just go with your gut. As far as Pokemon ‘investments’ are concerned, WotC and EX-series booster boxes are just about the safest and most reliable purchases one could make. Plus, if one goes up in the price, the other likely has, too. It’s hard to imagine EX-series boxes stagnating or declining while WotC boxes continue to shoot up in value. These sorts of things likely will trend in the same direction.

[jonandek]

@baccene

I find myself looking at my Unseen Forces ex cards only 2nd to my base 1st edition cards… if not equal. They are special cards. I sell everything except my ex and base cards. Too freaking hard to get them back.

Unseen forces is a gorgeous set. The way the holos are executed is peak for that era, IMO

[modestmudkip]

@zorloth

@modestmudkip

That does make sense and its very interesting. Makes the decision of where to put my money even harder

Personally, if the choice was between something like Fossil/Jungle (in either 1st Edition or Unlimited) and an EX-series booster box, the EX-series booster box would be a no-brainer. If the choice was between an e-Series set and an EX-series set, though, it would be tougher for me to decide. Ultimately, you should just go with your gut. As far as Pokemon ‘investments’ are concerned, WotC and EX-series booster boxes are just about the safest and most reliable purchases one could make. Plus, if one goes up in the price, the other likely has, too. It’s hard to imagine EX-series boxes stagnating or declining while WotC boxes continue to shoot up in value. These sorts of things likely will trend in the same direction.

Yeah I just missed out on that recent aquapolis box on ebay. I probably wouldve gone harder for it if I had made a few more preemptive sales in preparation for it. Likely wont have another on the market for a while though. But I have my artset from aquapolis so I am good there. Still need plenty of other sets artsets though so Ill likely get a box of a set I still need pack arts of

[madden12ut]

462 graded blaine’s moltres (1st edition)

460 graded jolteon gold stars

Could be somewhat useful info? I don’t know… I definitely found it interesting though

[modestmudkip]

if regular holos for ex sets ever get near holos from wotc those boxes will be crazy. I know that the intro of gs and ex sorta ruined holos but who knows maybe someday people will respect ex series holos

[zorloth]

@modestmudkip

if regular holos for ex sets ever get near holos from wotc those boxes will be crazy. I know that the intro of gs and ex sorta ruined holos but who knows maybe someday people will respect ex series holos

It’s happened already for EX Sandstorm and EX Dragon holos. Quite a few from those sets are now in the $30-$50 range. But those sets had the abnormally low pull rates. For a lot of other EX-series sets, it’s tough to imagine holos getting too high in price, though.

[swarm]

@madden12ut

462 graded blaine’s moltres (1st edition)

460 graded jolteon gold stars

Could be somewhat useful info? I don’t know… I definitely found it interesting though

Power Keepers is one of the most (if not the most) printed ex series sets. I remember seeing power keepers packs in stores up until 2010.

[zorloth]

@swarm

@madden12ut

462 graded blaine’s moltres (1st edition)

460 graded jolteon gold stars

Could be somewhat useful info? I don’t know… I definitely found it interesting though

Power Keepers is one of the most (if not the most) printed ex series sets. I remember seeing power keepers packs in stores up until 2010.

100%. Soooooo many of the DP-era blisters and tins had Power Keepers packs. Same thing, but to a lesser extent, with Crystal Guardians/Dragon Frontiers/Holon Phantoms.

[sacari]

One thing I would like to add, I am a huge fan of nintendo e series cards and have often said, anything with a “e” is basically a 1st edition stamp to me. You just can’t compare ex series cards to unlimited WOTC cards, it makes more sense to compare them to 1st ed cards due to print sizes.