Grey Stamp Theory

[pokemonrevolution]

Grey stamped 1st Edition Base set cards for the most part have commonly been considered to exist because of either

A) The ink was low when they were stamped

B) The stamp was not pressed down with enough force to create a nice dark color.

I believe the actual reason behind them is the following. First off I have opened a 1st Edition Base Box which contained many of these grey stamped cards. Majority of the cards had the normal black stamps, however a percent were grey. Coming from the same box I noticed many had various shades of grey to them. Some were very light and grey, others were slightly grey, and some were in the middle. Almost all of the cards from this box were sent to PSA to be graded.

Recently I was looking through some of these cards when I noticed this. See picture link below.

link

This was found on the back of a Professor Oak Trainer card. It was the first one I found, not to mention the most noticeable. It seems the stamp from the card behind it did not completely dry causing some of its stamp to smudge on the back of this one. I continued looking through my cards and noticed that MANY of the trainers have very faint 1st ed stamp smudges on the backs of them as well, in roughly the exact same spot. See link below

link

I then looked through my basic Pokemon common and uncommon cards. Many of these also had the faint remains of a 1st Edition stamp in the spot directly behind where the stamp would be on those cards. See link below.

link

I believe this is what could have caused the grey stamps we see today. They were stamped and did not have enough time to completely dry as they were stacked on each other. Depending on where they were in the pack and how much force was against of the card could cause how much ink came off.

This could very well be the reason we see various shades of the grey stamps. On the trainer cards they all are directly under the “P” in Pokemon at the bottom of the card. For the actual Pokemon species cards they are towards the right of the Pokeball.

Has anyone else noticed these faint 1st ed stamps on the backs of their cards?

[KingPokemon]

Edit: the below refers to the stamps on the back, not grey stamps.

Yes, many. I saved them for years then found a buyer who wanted them so I sold most. I still have several dozen.
I never put that much stock in them. In fact they seriously pissed me off cause it affected their grades:(

I think we had a thread on this before?

Oh, btw…that first pick is a nice one. Quite dark:)

[raichuforyou]

I’ve heard of this before so you’re not the only one to notice this. I’m not sure the grey stamps had ever been linked to the cards with the “1st ed” stamp on the back before. Interesting observation

[acebren]

Cool never thought of this possibility before

[EnlightenedBulbasaur]

Interesting theory with good supporting evidence.

As far as my own experience relates to this issue, I have a set of #17-102 base set cards that all came from the same box. In this box, none of the Rare and Common cards have grey stamps, but all of the Uncommon cards do. And as far as I can tell, all of those grey stamps appear to be quite similar. I’ll have to give them another look, and see if those cards have smudging on their backs.

But one thing I can see for sure is that whatever causes the cards to be grey stamped, it definitely happened before the Holos / Rares / Uncommons / Commons were sorted together.

[pokemonrevolution]

@KingPokemon

Edit: the below refers to the stamps on the back, not grey stamps.

Yes, many. I saved them for years then found a buyer who wanted them so I sold most. I still have several dozen.
I never put that much stock in them. In fact they seriously pissed me off cause it affected their grades:(

I think we had a thread on this before?

Oh, btw…that first pick is a nice one. Quite dark:)

Yes grade wise they seemed to not do very well.

If I could go back to the opening it would be helpful to see if the card against the backs of these were in fact grey stamped. Seems to be the stamp has to be affected if some of the ink is being taken from it.

And yup that first pic is the one that caught my attention!

[pokemonrevolution]

@EnlightenedBulbasaur

Interesting theory with good supporting evidence.

As far as my own experience relates to this issue, I have a set of #17-102 base set cards that all came from the same box. In this box, none of the Rare and Common cards have grey stamps, but all of the Uncommon cards do. And as far as I can tell, all of those grey stamps appear to be quite similar. I’ll have to give them another look, and see if those cards have smudging on their backs.

But one thing I can see for sure is that whatever causes the cards to be grey stamped, it definitely happened before the Holos / Rares / Uncommons / Commons were sorted together.

So most of the cards with the faint image of a 1st ed stamp on the back of these seem to have a normal dark stamp on the front. Interesting that all of your grey stamps have similar appearance. Mine were all over the place, some of them just barely lighter than the average stamp while others were much lighter.

[shizzlemetimbers]

There are a few other scenarios that may play out behind the origin of grey stamps as well as what you put forth which I also believe is the case with some grey stamps.

If you take a look at these Dewgongs the grey stamp is actually a different type of stamp one with 3d accent of the letters of “edition” as opposed to the flat “normal” version. Maybe this 3D stamp was discontinued by WOTC because it wasn’t imprinting properly aka grey stamps.

Additionally, I also have a few cards with a white 1st Ed imprint; these are both energy cards. These cards made me realize that the ink is wet theory is either incorrect or at least not the whole picture.

[KingPokemon]

That dewgong stamp is like the ‘ghost’ pikachus.

[scratchdesk]

I started some discussion on this a while back and am glad that it’s come back around with some interest.

This is specifically for non-holo Base 1st cards as the Holo grey stamp cards don’t share the same characteristics.

My speculations are similar to yours @hyruleguardian in that the grey stamps (and thus the back stamps) happened before sheets were cut/ cards were packaged. Possible severity could fall to the location on the sheet or how many were stacked on top of it at the time in my opinion. But this is almost certainly the cause of grey stamps and back stamp non-holos. Easiest way to verify this is the placement of the back stamp on the card(s) will always match the placement of the front stamp. Example: trainers will never have a back stamp in the location a creature card would have a front stamp.

As @shizzlemetimbers pointed out some back stamp cards are white instead of black. This is likely due to the ink acting more like a glue and rather than “stamping” the back of the card it dried and removed the ink from the back of the card when the cards/ sheets were separated. That’s the most obvious answer for why some are white. I bet if you look hard and close enough there may be a way to identify cards that “peeled” the back ink off by looking at the front stamp.

And as @garyis2000 pointed out the ghost Pika alignment stamp is on some cards. The “E_ITION” stamp is still a source of confusion for me. I’m not sure why they would have used it. If it was an alignment marker for a secondary stamp… or what purpose it served. But in sorting through Base 1st cards there are a lot that have it and a lot that don’t appear to. The “D” is the easiest way to tell as it won’t have the shadowing the other letters do.

[jkanly]

The ghost or grey stamp wasn’t as much a aspect of ink “levels” as much as it was an issue between the plates (a metal sheet on a roller where the 1st edition stamp dies are located) and the batch of ink used when printing occurred. I would say more but I don’t want to provide too much related information to the topic which potential counterfeiters can use

The Shadowless Base set sheets were printed first and then run through again to place the stamps on them so inconsistencies are all connected.

[quuador]

Nice theory, and a very likely one as well!

It does make me wonder though: I currently have two Red Cheeks Pikachus with the stamp on the back. Red Cheeks are one of the first Pikachus being printed, so this backs up the theory that they first had this issue with Grey stamps and Stamp-imprints on the back, and later on replaced it with faster drying ink (or let it dry longer before stacking). (And then later replacing those thick stamps with thin stamps, but that’s a different story.)

However, although I have two Red Cheeks Pikachus with stamp-imprints on the back, I’ve never seen (and am still looking for) a Grey Stamp Red Cheeks Pikachu. I do have (and seen a lot of) Yellow Cheeks Pikachus however, but I’ve also never seen (and am still looking for) a Yellow Cheeks Pikachu with a Stamp-imprint on the back. This aspect is kinda confusing for me regarding this theory, because I would expect the Pikachus with a Grey Stamp and Stamp-imprint on the back to be either both Red Cheeks, or both Yellow Cheeks coming from the same production line of sheets.

(Oh, and I also have one other card - a Machop - with a stamp on the back in my general collection.)

PS: If anyone has or has seen a Yellow Cheeks Pikachu with a Stamp-imprint on the back, or a Grey Stamp Red Cheeks Pikachu let me know / please sell it to me.

Greetz,
Quuador

[scratchdesk]

Interesting @quuador

That’s another aspect I hadn’t thought about too much. It’s interesting to me that there are Red and Yellow cheek Pikachus found in both 1st Edition and Shadowless sets (not to mention E3 promos too). If all shadowless cards were part of a single print run and printed before “1st Edition” stamps were added then they made the correction mid production? I wonder if there was a single production facility or if there were multiple in the US printing Base 1st.

[null_user]

@scratchdesk

Interesting @quuador

That’s another aspect I hadn’t thought about too much. It’s interesting to me that there are Red and Yellow cheek Pikachus found in both 1st Edition and Shadowless sets (not to mention E3 promos too). If all shadowless cards were part of a single print run and printed before “1st Edition” stamps were added then they made the correction mid production? I wonder if there was a single production facility or if there were multiple in the US printing Base 1st.

Where were they printed? I remember buying a booster box, and Gary helping me be the middle-man. He mentioned that it came from near the printing location - but I can’t recall now. @garyis2000 ?

[jkanly]

@scratchdesk

Interesting @quuador

That’s another aspect I hadn’t thought about too much. It’s interesting to me that there are Red and Yellow cheek Pikachus found in both 1st Edition and Shadowless sets (not to mention E3 promos too). If all shadowless cards were part of a single print run and printed before “1st Edition” stamps were added then they made the correction mid production? I wonder if there was a single production facility or if there were multiple in the US printing Base 1st.

Initially it was just PBM graphics before the demand exceeded their capacity and they needed to source other companies.

[KingPokemon]

@guangsta

@scratchdesk

Interesting @quuador

That’s another aspect I hadn’t thought about too much. It’s interesting to me that there are Red and Yellow cheek Pikachus found in both 1st Edition and Shadowless sets (not to mention E3 promos too). If all shadowless cards were part of a single print run and printed before “1st Edition” stamps were added then they made the correction mid production? I wonder if there was a single production facility or if there were multiple in the US printing Base 1st.

Where were they printed? I remember buying a booster box, and Gary helping me be the middle-man. He mentioned that it came from near the printing location - but I can’t recall now. @garyis2000 ?

Well, just that it was printed in Renton Washington like all the base sets were.