Is there a divide between old and new collectors?

General
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I know this dynamic is quite beat to death across all fronts (not just collecting), but I still find there to be some tension between newer collectors and long-term collectors worth mentioning here. I am not trying to start drama, or point fingers, or anything like that, just want some honest opinions and thoughts on the topic.

I find there often tends to be this “zoomer-timmy collector who wants 1st ed base Zard for free VS boomer-collector-god who sneers at smooth-brain newcomers” vibe going on sometimes. It’s honestly kind of funny how serious the discussions can get lol!

I understand hoards of new people coming into the hobby looking to stonk out and essentially request free investment advice that can predict the future is very frustrating. I can also understand that coming into the hobby right now can be very jarring, confusing and overwhelming. But is there a possibility that we may end up painting some of these broad extremes onto the wrong people? Is this something that you consider to be a potential issue, or are you confused by this post and think this isn’t an issue at all?

My viewpoint is: sometimes asking questions on here or stating seemingly harmless things can be met with some very negative, hostile responses. I think there is a wealth of knowledge to be had here, but there are times when users would rather make fun of, or snap on someone than be constructive. I am not suggesting anyone has any obligation to spend hours educating people for free online, I am merely noticing a pattern of behaviour. I know this is a hobby we all share a deep emotional, personal connection with, but it’s for that reason I think we should strive to be helpful and nice to one another. You might think I am too soft and shake your head at this post, which is okay, just wanted to open a conversation about this.

Again, I am not pointing a finger at anyone or group specifically. My intention isn’t to “take sides,” or make anyone feel targeted.

Also, I am not trying to absolve myself of accountability. There have been times where I’ve been aggressive or hostile with other people on these forums. I am not condoning this, but like, I get it, sometimes things get heated.

Please r e s p e c t f u l l y share your thoughts on the matter!

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www.elitefourum.com/t/elitism-and-entitlement-our-war-of-words-on-e4/31664/1

Try giving this thread a read!

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I remember when i was talking about this cool new rhydon promo in discord and everyone kept saying rhydon deez nutz.

Short answer - yes

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I feel the same way about pokemon as I did about cars when I was in the scene. I wish people were just in it for the love of the hobby and not because they want to make money/chase clout.

Now having said that, there was a lot less money to be made and clout to be had pre 2016. That’s as far as I’m going

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Wow, what a fantastic read! I think it’s really important that we understand each other and I can see how the hobby changing has effected people in different ways. I really appreciate you sharing this with me, thank you!

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someone on discord said “Is $150k a lot to you?” yesterday and I broke down and started crying

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I definitely agree. It’s a shame that growth over the years has caused some people who genuinely love the hobby to be displaced, so to speak. I really enjoyed opening modern in like 2015, but sadly I was still too young and impressionable to confidently get serious with the hobby lol.

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I’d consider myself as a “newcomer” to this collective space - and this forum definitely has a wealth of knowledge and fantastic people. It also has its negative and not so pleasant people.

I dont think there is a divide between old and new collectors, I’ve personally been able to engage with old and new collectors, investors, dealers.

There is definitely some individuals that have been in the space for a long time that are highly educated but not worth engaging with & there is definitely a good amount of newcomers that post without any due diligence at all.

This is a great platform to learn and meet people/friends, at the same time you aren’t going to get along with everyone. I’d say my biggest take away is everyone including myself should take a few extra seconds before creating a post every once and a while.

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Long story short, you’re right. Reina’s post in the above linked thread is fantastic and does a better job than I could hope to on this, but I’ll add my thoughts here especially as I didn’t respond in the other thread.

Toxicity in Pokemon is at an all-time high. I understand a lot of the frustration–not being able to buy Pokemon cards at retail price sucks. Being priced out of your goals sucks. Participating in a hobby for years based on genuine love and dedication only to see your dream cards snatched up by rich “investors” who you don’t think care as much as you sucks. It’s totally fine to be frustrated about the direction of the hobby. Sometimes I feel like even on E4 there’s this sentiment that if you love Pokemon you have to love everything that happens in the hobby, and if you don’t then you’re salty. Being frustrated about being priced out of goals you once thought were attainable is not entitlement.

However, the response to this frustration often goes way too far. We have people saying on twitter/reddit that they want to see Gary/Logan Paul/Scott/anyone who they deem focuses “too much” on value of cards injured or dead. We have this toxic “tru collector” mindset where if you even consider value when making a purchase you’re “contributing to the scalper problem” or “ruining the hobby.” Of course this is a lot more pronounced on other social medias than E4. There is a constant search for someone to blame, and instead of looking at the actual market dynamics and massive increased demand, people blame “scalpers” or “investors” for cards going up in price when in reality it’s just everyone and their dog wanting them. Believing you should always have access to below-market-price Pokemon products because you’re buying them for the right purpose is entitlement, and it is toxic.

I also completely understand why those who have been collecting for awhile are resistant to the “new collecting” style. It’s different, it’s often abrasive and show-offy, and it’s the “new” people to the hobby who are generating a lot of the toxicity. I also think people can occasionally overgeneralize and react negatively to new members even if they aren’t displaying some of the more negative traits. Overall, I think it’s harder to come in as a new member and learn today than it was a few years ago. If you came in a few years ago and asked an investment question, you would likely receive a few genuine responses. Now, you’ll get laughed at and memed on. And I will join in, partly because I do not want E4 to become a Pokemon investment forum.

The vast majority of new Pokemon collectors will not last in the hobby. They will be out after 1-2 years. Perhaps now it’s harder to make that transition from “new collector” to “serious collector” because of the (often justified) vitriol towards newer collectors. Could we all be better? Sure. But honestly, I have no qualms about maintaining E4 as a resource and community aimed at more serious collectors.

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You guys are all new collectors to me! :wink:

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You can tell people’s intentions based on how and what they ask. If people want to do it for the money, just be blatant. It’s also a bit annoying when you can just tell somebody has put no effort to learn about something independently before asking.

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I honestly think the “divide” (if you can call it that) between “old” collectors and “new” colors is a reflection of life in and of itself. There is always a difference in opinion between the old guard and the newcomers.

Take sports for example. How many arguments do you see over which era of basketball or baseball or whatever was the best? You have newcomers saying, “Guys from the '80s couldn’t compete in today’s game!” Then you have the old guard saying, “This generation of athletes is soft. They would get washed by the players of the past.”

You can even use the simple, classic cartoonish example of “back in my day, we used to walk 15 miles in the snow to get to school.”

This is the case with everything in life. The key is not to let anyone who may disagree with you affect your enjoyment of whatever the subject may be, whether that be Pokemon card collecting, football, video games, or whatever.

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I miss the time when it took BALLS and PASSION to buy something because it wasn’t some insta-stonk, bulletproof, optimized stock you could use to impress your friends with (quite the opposite). I miss the time when we were 1% of the amount of people we are today. I miss the time I could search for something on Youtube without wanting to puke from the recommended thumbnails.

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Just as long as you keep your sh$t from spilling over into MY sh$t…we’re good. But who gets to say who is who?

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Emotional tension almost always stems from money in this hobby IMO.

It’s unfortunate that it’s harder for those that turned up later but it’s sort of their own fault for not being a tru collector earlier on. I wish I had collected 1st Edition Base PSA a few years ago when they were affordable but it doesn’t really bother me because I can still enjoy a PSA 7 unlimited Fossil Articuno.

I find it ironic that zoomer-timmys call out people for “being in it for the money” but overlook the last 3 words of “Pokemon Trading Card Game”, the definition literally is that you trade the cards (including for money) to grow your collection. I find the chase of trading your way up through finding value opportunities just as fun as looking at the cards

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I won’t deny there is an element of this… but I don’t see it as much as I hear about it. In my opinion, the majority of the ‘toxicity’ comes from people upset at being unable to buy modern products at prices we would have historically expected. Which is natural! When you’re used to one thing and all of a sudden it gets more expensive, it’s annoying. Especially when your income doesn’t increase congruently. But when it’s framed as a symptom of evil investors coming in and stopping tru collectors from participating in the hobby then it gets very boring very quickly.

As well, I think people tend to assume that being priced out of modern means they are priced out of everything else. That may seem logical, but it’s not the case. There are cards that I am literally buying now for less than I was 5 years ago (admittedly I might have overpaid then, lol), but they really haven’t changed in price much since covid (when I came back into the hobby). I bring this up to illustrate that, even if people are frustrated at not being able to participate in one area, there are still plenty of other areas they can… isn’t that what a re4l tru collector would do?:ninja:

Speaking only with respect to E4, I have noticed that people tend to be welcoming and willing to answer questions new collectors might have. Way more helpful than I am, and I probably should make more of an effort myself. But it helps if the person asking the question has put in some legwork also, as opposed to just asking for every small thing to be explained. I think that’s generally going to be the case with all things; whether you’re asking someone for career advice, or how to buy cards from Japan, for example. Maybe that is perceived as ‘gatekeeping’ (again, part of it may well be), but I think in general it’s impatience stemming from the 40th person that day asking what they should buy to 10x their money by next month so they can make their alimony payment (is that harsh? it feels harsh).
Realistically, spending a few hours going down rabbitholes on Bulbapedia will probably be the steepest learning curve, especially if you’re starting from scratch. If you have a specific question that stems from that, then I think the majority of people are helpful.

Of course, we have all been newbies at some stage, and it is important to be reminded from time to time to be patient with someone trying to participate in a passion we share. It can be disheartening to google Pokémon on a whim and immediately see a plethora of clickbait articles highlighting only the most expensive parts of the hobby. And I totally get that, when that happens, it’s hard to know where to turn next.

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I agree that going too far in either direction is not good. Wishing harm on people because they are seen as prioritizing monetary value over emotional value is unacceptable. It’s true that the influx of stonkers has potentially caused a knee-jerk reaction to literally anyone who discusses value. I think @smpratte said it well a few times that as much as we may not like it, finances, money and value are a part of this hobby. We do have to accept that cards and boxes costing hundreds of thousands of dollars in some instances necessitates a financial aspect. I also agree that no one is any more entitled to something; that is, market value is an objective data point, and sometimes it can be difficult to separate a subjective feeling from the objective reality.

I never really considered the worry of E4 becoming an investment forum. It’s completely understandable… lol I get it now. Meme’ing on the new people to weed out the stonkers, I suppose. It’s unfortunate that it can be difficult for new collectors with a genuine interest to find their footing because the white noise of the toxic people drowns them out. I guess it really comes down to a group of “new collectors” who are toxic being met with a group of “old collectors” who are being toxic back, and then there happens to be a lot of crossfire.

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hey… where’d ur comment go :ninja:

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idk man. i’ve loved pokemon since I played fire red for the first time (yea, yea, call me young lol that was my first game), but my entire life i’ve face nothing but ridicule for it. From people I called close friends, family, anyone. I am sure all of you can probably relate to some degree. That really sucked and getting made fun of for liking Pokemon pushed me away from collecting more for all of my life. You could argue that I shouldn’t have let it get to me, and sure, you’re right, but it’s a shitty thing to happen either way. I think this growth of the hobby has made it more acceptable socially. Even though it sucks that money had to be the factor that socially validated the hobby, it still makes me happy to think some people out there who felt dumb for liking Pokemon can feel a little less dumb now.

The line of friends interested in my collection has sloped heavily downwards over the years lol and now I am here. Isn’t life a bitch lmao pokemon’s popularity is sky-high and i have less friends to share my collection with :sob:

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This is a fair point. E4 isn’t really a place for beginners. It’s a place for serious collectors. I can understand why a forum that was originally populated by committed, passionate people being flooded with randoms asking about the flippage of modern makes people wanna bang their head off a wall lol. Idk, I know there was a pretty big population of YouTubers redirecting their viewers to E4… I was wondering how in the hell those kinds of people even end up here lol. I personally stumbled across the smpratte youtube channel. I had never really heard Pokemon talked about in this way prior and it immediately reignited my interest. I suppose a lot of newbies just get referenced in here and don’t realize this is like literally the elite four equivalent of pokemon collecting lol.