for trading cards it’s never been that bad since it’s only $3-10 at most to ship a card, but in my other hobbies shipping can be $50-$200+ to return an item.
Paypal for the most part let the seller decide if they would pay for return shipping, if they didn’t feel like it they would make you pay for it. It was really crummy, but Finally they have an option to get the money back for return shipping.
found it today, just click details of a transaction and it it there, just add proof that you shipped it.
(after selecting an option it gives you a way to upload a scan of the receipt or pdf file of online shipping form)
It only works for the last 30 days, so be mindful of that.
All sellers should accept only gift payments cause returning items has become an epidemic. They use the sellers as if they’re a bank. One return and simply ban that scammer forever.
Obviously I’ve lost all patience with those nuts but be filtered a huge chunk of them out so its not so bad:)
Let’s say I sell someone a card through PayPal invoice with tracked, signature confirmation shipping and the buyer pays. I meticulously film myself packing the item, driving it to the post office, and dropping it in the box all in one continuous shot with the item never leaving the frame. Can the buyer receive the item and still pull a bull shit scam where they get their money back without returning the item?
…or is your reply only referring to someone returning the item and shipping it back, then requesting compensation for the return shipping?
Filming anything is pointless. The issue is not so much a lack of ‘evidence’ but rather, the fact that paypal/eBay always sides with the buyer, regardless of what the situation is. Anything you sell on eBay should be considered a loss. At any time (3 days, 3 weeks, 3 months after the sale etc) a buyer can open a dispute with their credit card company claiming the charges are fraudulent. Paypal has pretty much zero say in the face of major banks. They’ll just fork the money over to the buyer from your account. Whatever the buyer decides to return to you is what you get to keep. There are stories of people filing chargebacks over 9 months after a sale and getting refunded. There are also stories of people buying $1k items, filing chargebacks, and sending nothing back. eBay (usually) doesn’t care. Not everyone is out to scam you but one scam can wipe out an entire month of profits. That’s why eBay selling should always be high volume, low cost.
Sellers are desperately in need of a new selling apparatus but eBay is all there is at the moment.
So say I get scammed and the “buyer” claims a charge back. Can’t I use the documentation to further escalate the dispute with the credit card company or some other judicial entity to make sure someone doesn’t essentially steal from me? I had this discussion in person with someone who used to run an online business in the early days of internet selling and they had similar points that you make. What if I have zero money in the account to give back? What about transactions using a credit card at a brick and mortar store?
Oh and I wasn’t necessarily referring to on eBay but rather through PayPal directly although I guess there isn’t much of a difference.
You can escalate a dispute. Sellers almost never win. A buyer can just claim you faked any documentation. eBay and banks are out to give themselves a good name to their customers. Railroading a few (or many) innocent sellers comes as a part of that.
Heh. Everything works with credit. It makes no difference if you have ‘zero money’: you just incur a negative balance. If you want to use your paypal account you need to pay off the balance.
Brick and mortar stores are totally different because they conduct hand-to-hand business and set their own policies. As a seller on eBay, which is what’s relevant when talking about most pokemon collectibles, you’re beholden to eBay’s policies.
Also Paypal, until recently, was subsidiary of eBay. It was basically used as an exchange system for eBay.
Good info, thanks. I’m going to continue my research about “friendly fraud” online to avoid going completely off topic into the realm of fiat currency and in turn spewing fiery hatred towards it. At the end of the day my personal opinions haven’t changed. Credit, credit cards, banks, privately owned currency, it’s all shite. I guess it just comes with the territory. I’m glad a community like this exists where we have known members that are trustworthy who we can all buy, sell, and trade with.
Keep in mind that, although scams really hurt, not everyone is out to scam you. And the current system really sucks for sellers on eBay, but it works fine in other places. And it also really rocks for buyers, obviously. If you sell on eBay, remember to keep low cost and high volume relative to income. If you’re making $1000 per month, you have no business selling a single card for $2500.
My contention though is EVERYBODY who returns an item to a “reputable seller” in the field is a scammer. They are taking advantage of a system that’s vulnerable. Of course if you buy something from a newbie and the card is torn in half that’s different. Return it.
Returning items is not scamming, you have no idea how may times I’ve ordered an item listed as new and it arrived used. This is mostly in my car hobby not trading cards.
scamming would be if I kept the item and tried to get a refund as well, I’ve been hit by those as a seller.
Actually a scam is ordering tons of cards that are advertised as nm/m or mint and those that aren’t 10 possibilities get returned. There’s many buyers like this around.
I have 10s of thousands of bought cards under my belt in 20 years and can only remember 2 returns. I just resell what I don’t want. I don’t want to return cause it discourages the sellers and hurts the hobby. Believe me, this policy has served me very well;)
