Hate this shit.
Don’t post a raw mint card and expect to get graded price for it. A premium yea I get that, but there’s a difference.
Also, learn how to determine the condition of your cards. There’s a HUGE difference between Mint and LP
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Duly noted, will do. Thanks.
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C’mon muk!!! Lol of all people I figured you’d be on top of this already lol
raws a tough game yo 
. Recently bought a binder from extremely reputable source listed as ‘Mint’ with it being said 'best guess is majority 8-9, some possible 10s. could some grade 7s? sure. Is it possible below that? I doubt it but not impossible". He clarified before he didn’t have experience grading these particular cards w/ PSA but I assumed given their status and general experience collecting it would be very close to mint and expected his opinion of quality to be far more reliable than my own, and so I paid an extremely high premium over typical raw, basically paying near PSA 8 prices at the time to have the complete binder.
Ludkins pre-grades (notoriously tough to be fair)
9: 3.33%
8: 11.33%
7: 26.66%
6: 19.33%
5: 38.67%
4: 4%
Anyways I in no way think this person was dealing in bad faith, have had 0 bad interactions with them and think they are generally a good person… but raw is tough. Those pre grades hurt. grading from a binder is tough, grading from pictures is tough. I think I will stick to graded for the most part (as I had been previously) unless I’m pulling it and putting it into binder myself
I appreciate you not wanting to slander my name but I will take full responsibility for this.
I recently sold primo a complete blue back Topsun set raw. I truly thought that the cards were mostly of PSA 8-9 quality (I did say that I thought it was possible that some might be 10s and some might be lower grades). I also clarified that I had no experience with grading Topsun and that when I held the cards to bright lighting I could generally see very light surface scratches at certain angles, but other than that the cards looked minty to me.
The lesson for me is that I will never sell raw cards as if they’re mint again. And also that I am apparently clueless when it comes to evaluating raw Topsun cards.
For what it’s worth, the original source I had acquired the cards from back in 2009, a very reputable seller indeed, told me at the time that all of the cards were “near mint to mint.” After receiving the cards I had never questioned that. They always looked great in my binder and the ones I inspected before sending them to you looked great to me. But, lesson learned.
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I’ve been burned so many times buying raw cards labeled as mint. There’s just too many ways to take pictures that hide the flaws if the seller is inclined to do so. Even if they aren’t, many times pictures don’t show enough. Factor in the differences in opinion on what is considered “Mint” or “NM” by two people, you’re going to have a hard time being satisfied.
I’d recommend buying graded or going in with the assumption that the card you’re buying is in worse condition than advertised. Don’t pay the premium unless it’s someone you know and trust
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Buying raw cards today labelled as nm, nm/mint, or mint is such a gamble because there’s so many people coming in and thinking their cards are nm or better when they’re not. I mentioned before on here that when I first got back in that I got burned badly on a deal because the other guy assured me his cards were nm and they showed up with small creases. Guy went on to say that they were near mint in his eyes (lol).
I think if you’re going to be willing to pay a premium, just buy the graded version if you can. It’s less of a hassle, less of a risk, because you never know what PSA/BGS/CGC will see that you don’t. Otherwise, if you still want to grade yourself and pay that premium, just be ready for it to show up with holo scratches or a little dent or something that knocks it down. Plus, if a card grades out as a PSA 7 and the seller sold it was NM, they’re not technically wrong, though it’s not what most people are expecting to be sure.
Yea just to be clear I never EVER would have released your name, and again I don’t think you had bad intentions at all
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To play devil’s advocate: why would someone list a PSA 9/10 quality raw card at PSA 7/8 prices? I agree that most sellers (on eBay in particular) are clueless when it comes to grading. But not everyone is. I’m a very detail-oriented, accurate grader and I’ve had zero trouble selling actually mint raw cards at near PSA 9 prices.
If a card is worth $50 in PSA 9 and $5 raw NM, and I have a pack fresh copy that’s going to get a 9: I’m going to list it for $30. I think this is entirely reasonable, as I’d personally rather have $30 right now than $40 eight months from now. And many buyers would rather save the money and buy the raw 9 for $30. But this is only doable if buyers trust you. Regardless, I wouldn’t sell that card for $5 – at that point, I’d just submit it myself.
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All those that need to read your message (op) sadly will not be on here to read it
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I totally agree with charging the $30 for it. I would have too.
A lot of time people will pay a premium on raw mint cards that look like PSA 9’s with a gamblers chance at a PSA 10. I get that.
The difference is, sellers often mislead the buyers. Posting a LP card and saying it’s mint is just a fraudulent move IMO. If you can’t tell the difference between the two then maybe you shouldn’t be selling raw cards?
Example: The other day on FB I posted a raw 1st Ed Jungle Snorlax in Mint pack fresh condition for $300. I mean it was super clean. I posted pics of all angles and a video. I had paid $215 for it earlier that day at a card shop. I got to inspect it in hand and pulled the trigger knowing that if it graded at least a PSA 9 it’s a $900+ card easily. I just don’t send off for grading so I figured I could make a few dollars in profit and I did. Why didn’t I list it $900 then? Because it’s not a graded card. It’s a raw mint card with an added premium with the expectation of it getting a 9 or 10.
Trying to maximize a raw mint card to the fullest is fine. Just don’t ask for graded prices on raw cards is all. If you want that $900 value for it then grade it and sell it as such.
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And for the record, I am not calling anyone out on here. It’s just what I’ve seen on other platforms such as FB, marketplace etc…it was a topic that was brought up and thought I’d mention it here as well.
Topic of discussion that is all.
It is tough. You can’t see it in person, you’re going based off pictures and the sellers description. Most of the time that leads to taking a chance on it. Sometimes you get lucky and most of the time you don’t.
That’s where the problem starts. The seller thinking they are accurately describing the condition. He may think it’s Mint, but you think it’s LP. Then the back and forth starts there.
Unless I see full detailed High Definition pics of the holo at different angles, the front and back up close, I steer away. If the seller says it’s mint and can’t provide those types of pictures for me then that tells me he’s not fully disclosing any of the harder to see flaws and his description of it becomes a bogus one.
If you want raw cards with potential, buying in person is your best bet in my opinion.
What are you going to do about it?
This is the kind of honest, frank, fair exchange that keeps me around on efour
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I tend to get any card with NM/M/GM Potential Graded by PSA simply because in the differences in opinion from one collector to another. I rather avoid the hassle of returns and avoid buyers that are looking for M/NM RAW cards. I get many requests from that but I just keep selling cards in Excellent condition as Raw cards. Just wanna avoid problems lol.
I generally won’t sell a card unless it sells higher than the last card in equivalent condition. I often list raw cards at high prices and they often sell for those prices.
So I think it comes down to how good of an eye you have looking at listings. Occasionally I get burned on conditions of cards I purchase but I assume the risk as I’m not purchasing a graded card.
If people write in the descriptions that the raw card is a PSA 10, I just think “If they are so sure, they would grade it themselves”
Edit: A good example is this: www.ebay.com.au/itm/1st-Edition-Dark-Alakazam-18-82-Team-Rocket-Mint-9-10-PSA-potential/124461084442
In what world is that getting a PSA 9 or 10?
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I think we are all guilty of misjudging condition when we are new to the hobby so all ebay listings should be taken with a pinch of salt. The terms can be quite ambigious but if people posted CLEAR PICTURES from several angles out of sleeves then there shouldn’t be a problem. Whenever someone mentions a potential PSA grade it’s very annoying and recently most raw cards seem to be overpriced. I do wonder if raw cards will increase to those prices to bridge the margin between raw and graded when the millions of PSA submissions come back by the end of 2021 though
Raw (gem) mint for old, valuable cards is not a thing anymore. You can get lucky but in 99.9% of the cases there is some (hidden) flaw. You´re better off just buying PSA 8-9 at this point.
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