Scumbag buyer - watch out.

[xuzu]

Okay as much as anything I just need to vent. My mistakes are ultimately to blame for this situation but I have had to deal with an absolute PIG of a buyer and it’s made me angry. Let me tell you a tale. I think bullet points will best tell it. Hopefully someone can learn from my mistakes if they didn’t already.

• So I sell a PSA 9 1st Edition Neo Revelation Ho-Oh for £50 on eBay to buyer ’
  keiferjc’. He pays right away, and is friendly and pleasant in messages exchanged prior. He pays £1.50 for recorded delivery (only option)

• A few days pass (estimated 4) and I haven’t been able to send it out yet. I message him with an update, explaining that due to working nights I have missed the opportunity to send it, apologising for the delay. He replies in a very friendly manor saying that he also works a shift and completely understands - very courteous. The next day I miss the chance again, and I decide to just post it 1st class unrecorded in the post box (a complete error). I considered £50 value to be on the cusp of what is an acceptable risk for me.

[SPOILER: Click to show](javascript:void(0)

HIM:No worries friend. I know the pain. I work 15 hour shifts myself… they suck . And thanks. Really looking forward to adding this card to my collection.

• The next day I tell him what I did, and I also refund him £5 out of goodwill for the inconvenience.

• So I do this, and a few days later he’s opened up a case against me with eBay. I’m a bit sceptical and usually I would advise to wait a few more days but since I’ve already inconvenienced him, I give him the benefit of the doubt and issue another partial refund (to make it a complete one) immediately, counting on him to do the honourable thing should it turn up. He replies to the case positively:

[SPOILER: Click to show](javascript:void(0)

ME: Hi, I’m sorry to hear that you haven’t received your card yet. It was sent when I said so, 1st class, so if it hasn’t arrived by now that does suggest it may have gone missing perhaps. I’ll give you a refund, and in the hope that it does turn up, I do hope you’d let me know. Kind regards, Ryan

HIM: The full refund will be great and if the card does happen to arrive i will let you know and send it back to you.

• Unbeknown to me, on Paypal, both of my partial refunds that I had issued have not even reached him yet (this is like a week after I sent the first one). Both refunds simply say ‘Pending’. I’m pretty annoyed since now I look like I have lied about the refunds. This is something I’ve never experienced with Paypal either. Once I notice this I immediately message him via the case:

[SPOILER: Click to show](javascript:void(0)

ME:I have refunded the rest of the money (after refunding £5 for goodwill before) but on both transactions it still says ‘pending’ on my Paypal account. Can you see anything on your own Paypal? Perhaps you have to manually accept the refund? Please let me know. Ryan

• From here on, there is some to and fro, and I’m just going to extract the key parts, I just couldn’t believe what I was reading.

HIM: I suspect you are stalling this transaction in the hopes of being able to scam me out of £52.49 Which is ridiculous for such a small amount of money if that is the case. Just issue me the full refund, not any good will gesture £5 refund then claim to have sent the rest with no evidence. I will only accept the £52.49 refund. I highly doubt you have sent the card. I have send many items in my time and fully aware of all proceedings. For you to take 12 days to send 1 item by first class prives to me you are a scammer. Issue my refund you have no other choice before ebay take over this matter

• I then provide him with three separate screenshots from my Paypal homepage, one of both pending transactions, including the dates I issued them, and two other screenshots with more details of each one. I also explain that I’ve already made contact with Paypal to understand why they’re pending.

HIM:I see your point but this has happened many times and i am sick of it. You may not be the other official scammers. But when i see warning signs i will go by them and although throwing your a scammer out there may offend you i am none the wiser to who you or what your intentions are. Beit honest or not.

• After doing some more digging through my Paypal transactions, I find an obscure page that actually tells me the dates my 2 partial refunds are pending 'til. I send him further screenshots of those dates for reassurance, I can of course see things from his perspective too. Paypal also get back to me explaining that it takes X amount of days for Paypal to retrieve the funds from my bank account (I thought it was always instant but hey ho), hence the ‘pending’ status. I also explain this to him.

• I notice the initial £5 refund clears. I update him again to let him know if he hadn’t noticed, and also to reassure him further than the rest of his refund was coming.

[SPOILER: Click to show](javascript:void(0)

HIM:I had noticed. Once the remaining money is put into my account i will be completely fine. Although this does not set things straight for me as even through all of this i am yet to recieve the card which leads me to believe that it was not sent off. Yet who knows if it was sent off and lost. If it was lost im sure you would be very upset in losing the card. Yet i sense none of that from you. Further confirming my initial assumption. Still dont let it bother you…

So even though his £5 came through when Paypal and I said it would, he then decides to formally? open a case:

[SPOILER: Click to show](javascript:void(0)

The seller has given only £5 of the total £52.49 that i have paid for the item. I am still waiting for the full remaining amount which is £47.49 to be refunded to me. It has been 19 days now and i have had enough of waiting on what i cannot trust. I have not recieved the item also the seller has not given me any proof of sending the item off such as postal receipt. Where my doubts are in this transaction are very clear. I just want my refund instead of excuses and delays to my own hard earned money

Now of course, let’s be reasonable. From his perspective, he bought a card that was delayed in sending, and I have to take his word for it and give him the benefit of the doubt that he did not actually receive the card (even if I am sceptical), plus he didn’t immediately receive a refund when I had told him otherwise. BUT, am I in the wrong here for believing that he acted like a total pig? He went from my best friend to accusing me of being a scammer insanely quickly, and it seemed like he was trying to put on a show for eBay to convince them that I’m the bad guy. I couldn’t have given him any more reassurance or proof once things became clear. The two main issues, being the ‘lost’ card and the delayed Paypal refunds, were both totally out of my control to a large degree. Obviously my BIG error was not sending it recorded. But not to satisfy him, but to keep clarity over the whole transaction. I refunded him immediately, gave him a goodwill partial refund and kept him in the loop every minute I could with proof and reassurance, and proved everything I had said was true, yet he still found it cool to call me a scammer.

Anyway, it got totally refunded and I heard nothing more of it, until today, eBay e-mailed me saying they had decided in his favour and they have taken the money out of my Paypal account for a second time? Now it appears I’ve refunded him x2 and now I’m out of pocket by £50 so I have to e-mail Paypal yet again to sort this out. That’s why it brought the anger back and I have to vent here.

TL:DR I made a big error of judgement , keiferjc is a f**king pig and I’d avoid dealing with him like the plague

Thank you.

[xuzu]

Oh, also ALWAYS send recorded!!!

[pokemonsyndicate]

sounds like dis guy is a smelly pirate hooker. Make sure you include those words in your next paypal conclusion, because you mayswell if decided in his favour. Enough of this being polite, and engrish ethicalness… Its time for revenge xuzu.

[missingno]

I think he was being defensive due to the amount of scammers out there.

[xuzu]

@missingno

I think he was being defensive due to the amount of scammers out there.

He crossed a line for me, but then again I’m quite angry towards him.

[pokemonsyndicate]

@missingno

I think he was being defensive due to the amount of scammers out there.

THE QUESTION IS… WHAT DOES THE TRACKING NUMBER SAY DUN DUN DUN DUN.

[xuzu]

No tracking… that’s my error. Someone I know always uses special delivery to send to me and I always wondered why he was so militant about it… now I understand why.

[pokemonsyndicate]

@xuzu

No tracking… that’s my error. Someone I know always uses special delivery to send to me and I always wondered why he was so militant about it… now I understand why.

ahhhhhhhhh no traCKING… I guess there is going to be no way to get your monies back xuzingtons.

[xuzu]

I’m not bothered about the money hence I took the risk in the first place, I just think he acted like a pig… 0 class.

[missingno]

I guess you have to really put yourself in his shoes.

[xuzu]

@missingno

I guess you have to really put yourself in his shoes.

I do, yet I still would not act how he acted. He said himself why would I try to scam someone for £50, it’s a small amount, so he knows better.

[pokemonsyndicate]

I actually had this situation before but it was over something even smaller… Thing is i went absolutely ballistic because the person insulted me and didnt work with me, but he kind of couldnt work with me because i was going ballistic at that point. This ended in bad feedback, and then we talked and he was ment to help me remove it, and then he never did… what an ass… I should have thrown things at dem. I am the devil on your shoulder and @missingno is the angel on other side. Everyone has a little voice inside them that just once in a while comes out and says " I dont like your face, and I shall spit on it "

P.S Years later, a doctor will tell that person you spat on has an evil bacteria that waistes away all his muscles causes by said spitting, and then you will not feel good about it and your doctor will tel you that you have become mentally ill… Was it worth it… That is for you to decide sir.

and look what i found:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3jttbie_x4

[KingPokemon]

Ryan, I love you like a son but…

I tried reading only his notes and he has all the reason in the world to be pissed off. His reaction escalated as the time went on and on and on. Yes, he totally lost it. Yes, he overreacted. Many would though given the same circumstances so I just can’t fault him.

Now you handled the ‘after the fact’ extremely well. Proud of you there. But you still deserve to be put over my knee.

Pending an unavoidable emergency, and if the customer is unknown to you, ALWAYS SHIP THE NEXT BUSINESS DAY. The customer deserves that:)

[xuzu]

@KingPokemon

Ryan, I love you like a son but…

I tried reading only his notes and he has all the reason in the world to be pissed off. His reaction escalated as the time went on and on and on. Yes, he totally lost it. Yes, he overreacted. Many would though given the same circumstances so I just can’t fault him.

Now you handled the ‘after the fact’ extremely well. Proud of you there. But you still deserve to be put over my knee.

Pending an unavoidable emergency, and if the customer is unknown to you, ALWAYS SHIP THE NEXT BUSINESS DAY. The customer deserves that:)

I get that I made some errors, but he was totally fine that there was a small delay and very courteous about it. Later on he then uses it against me so I think he was being fake about it either way. I also gave him so much evidence and reassurance along the way and he begins to call me a scammer at the drop of a hat with zero grounds. I have EVERY bit as much right to accuse him of receiving it and deceiving me, but I take his word that he didn’t because you should give people the benefit of the doubt. I expect the same from people, and I don’t feel that I deserved to have my integrity questioned like that by him.

I have been scammed out of much more than £50 and I never carried on the way he did, and all the clues were there for him that he wasn’t being scammed at all - even if he was, he was safe in the knowledge that Paypal would pick his side if it came to it, so I don’t give him excuses for the way he spoke to me. I went out of my way to keep him in the loop the whole time with credible information.

I wonder if it doesn’t come across well at the bizarre rate at which he escalated. He went from 0 to 100 in a heartbeat. I feel like he was primarily putting on a show for whoever reads the thing, and acting like a pig unjustly. I was not a perfect seller but at the moment the package is apparently lost, I have no control at all. My only crime to him was being late and he was fine with that.

There’s having an off day as a seller and then there’s not behaving in a gentlemanly manner at all!

[KingPokemon]

Id say the likelihood of the package being lost is slim. I mean what are the odds that the one package you send untracked is the one that gets lost? Chances are he was upset at the delay and was able to justify the theft to himself.

[missingno]

@KingPokemon

Ryan, I love you like a son but…

I tried reading only his notes and he has all the reason in the world to be pissed off. His reaction escalated as the time went on and on and on. Yes, he totally lost it. Yes, he overreacted. Many would though given the same circumstances so I just can’t fault him.

Now you handled the ‘after the fact’ extremely well. Proud of you there. But you still deserve to be put over my knee.

Pending an unavoidable emergency, and if the customer is unknown to you, ALWAYS SHIP THE NEXT BUSINESS DAY. The customer deserves that:)

Agree 100% and is what I would’ve gotten into detail, if I was not having a couple of drinks at the moment. Even with $1.95 items I ship the next day, despite my work schedule (60 hours a week).

[pokemonsyndicate]

@missingno

@KingPokemon

my work schedule (60 hours a week).

you should be a billionair… where is your complete 1st ed shadowless set.

[snap]

sorry mate but im with Gary.You handled the aftermath EXTREMELY well and i think he didn’t necessarily go of the deep end. I think you took it a bit personal, and it’s hard not to. Yes he got upset and pissed off and let you know about it. But I don’t think he acted like a pig. He didn’t swear at you or call you names or any of that, which a lot of us here have dealt with.

Now do i think the package is lost? No, the odds would be at about 5% in my opinion. If he has received it and decided to steal it from you due to the inconvenience, THAT part would be him acting like a pig or any other name you want to throw at it.

Hoping it winds up in your post box somehow.

[milhouse]

A bit off the point but related.

I have dealt with people who have instantly gotten defensive like this before and immediately make the scammed accusation with ‘Well I have been scammed a lot before’.

Are these people just extremely gullible and/or uneducated when it comes to identifying scam attempts?

If you have been ‘scammed a lot’ then surely you should re-evaluate your buying decisions and how easily you commit to a sale?

I ask these questions because asside from 1 or 2 incidents when I first started collecting I havent fallen for a scam or been forcefully scammed in about 4 years.

[areestee]

I don’t even understand how a buyer on eBay can call scam in the first place since eBay basically always sides with them if something goes wrong. The only way you can get scammed on a purchase online is if you choose to send cash by mail or if you send funds via PayPal friends and family, and at that point, you are actively choosing to take the risk. You can’t really complain if it hits the fan then.

In this case, the buyer has in essence become a scammer in my eyes. Sorry @xuzu .