TCG: Vintage or Modern?

General
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Hi all!

I am unsure if this is answered already somewhere, but if it is, I cannot find it…

I wonder what the consensus is for vintage and modern Pokémon cards. I am sharing what I believe, but I am curious if others think the same…

Some people will separate this quickly and simply with the English cards between WOTC and Nintendo-released sets. But I am looking for more detail.

I am confident in describing WOTC as vintage, and I think most, if not all, will agree. However, I do not consider EX modern, and here begins the dilemma.

I classify EX to HeartGold & SoulSilver (HGSS) as new-vintage. I think EX to HGSS shows a similar card layout design on the obverse. In the Japanese TCG, we also see the reverse updated in 2002, and I understand that the VS Set saw the first use of the then-new reverse. From 2004-2010 in the TCG, the World Championship logo remained the same, with only minor changes.

Then everything after…, beginning with Black & White (BW) to me, is arguably modern and ends with Sword & Shield. In BW, there was the introduction of full-art cards. Also, the BW Base Set comprised only Generation V Pokémon, except Pikachu, I believe, excluding WOTC-era cards; this was the first solo generation set. Next, there was the then newly introduced Ability, which replaced Poké-Power and Poké-Body. In addition, the English card ordering system was updated to be similar to the Japanese system, where Pokémon were ordered by type and then by their Pokédex number. On Japanese cards, no longer were shapes used to symbolise rarity, now replaced by letters. The World Championship logo changed, too. Finally, we saw the international release of the Pokémon TCG Online.

Scarlet and Violet is contemporary-modern. There haven’t been too considerable updates or changes yet, but most noticeable is English cards now having, arguably long-awaited, silver borders to match the Japanese.

Now, I am sure to have missed some of the changes, but hopefully, this covers those more obvious or significant.

Do you agree or disagree with these separations?

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I agree.

In Gym Leader Challenge format, cards from BW onward are legal for play, so that’s my additional context. (Expanded might be the same?)

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I think I pretty much agree with your distinctions. I generally divide them in 10 year segments.

Vintage: 1996-2006

Modern: 2006-2016

Ultra Modern: 2016-current

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It’s always hard to pick a line between vintage and modern, probably because most people have different amounts of time in the hobby. Since most serious collectors collected cards as a kid, stopped collecting for awhile, and then rediscovered the hobby, I’d say the vintage/modern line would be divided similarly. Most people would perceive vintage as what was around while they were kids, and modern as what was around when they got back in.

I like @SeasidePokemon’s idea of splitting into three eras, largely because the market and dynamics are so different for each era. Print numbers and market for SM-on cards are vastly different from BW-XY eras. I’d consider BW/XY to be more similar to HGSS/DP.

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Agree that WotC, EX, DPPt are vintage, hard to argue with that.

Where to draw the line for Modern?

For many years the official app for playing the TCG was PTCGO, which went as far back as HGSS. But HGSS was a separate Legacy format, whereas BW and on was the Expanded format. There definitely felt like a major difference between those two.

A few others have made good points about print runs for SM-on and pre-SM, which is valid.

But idk… BW, XY, Evolutions, all those sets… they just feel and look modern to me. So I draw the line there. 2010 and before is Vintage / 2011 and on is Modern. But it’s not black and white (no pun intended). The 2010-13 or 2010-16 era could very well be its own middle era.

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I generally consider modern starting with BW.

With BW, the TCG changed the holofoil pattern for the first time since Base Set 2, only this time, it was at the start of a brand new generation, marking the beginning of a generation specific holofoil pattern…umm…pattern that continues to this day.

It was also the introduction of multiple levels of ultra rares, bringing in full arts & giving us textured cards as a standard for the first time.

Plus the franchise at the end of the DP era felt like Platinum/Arceus was the end point of the story, with HGSS being an amazing swansong to wrap everything up.

…Until the soft reboot with BW.

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This is how I separate the eras in my head:

Base - e-Series
EX - DPPt
HGSS - BW
XY - SM
SW/SH - SV

But if I only had two categories:

Base - HGSS: Vintage
BW - SV: Modern

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Gen 1-3: Vintage
Gen 4: Intermediate
Gen 5-9: Modern

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Vintage (20+ years): 1996-2004
Retro (5-19 years): 2005-2019
Modern (0-4 years): 2020-2024

Hidden Fates will be 5 years old this August

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personally I would do

vintage: oldback (base-neo)
retro: newback w/cosmos holo rares (e-L/HGSS)
modern: full arts+, change in holo rare foiling (BW on)

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I’m curious how definitions today will hold up in 2034. By then, full arts will have stretched 23 years since BW

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i imagine SV will be a new era

oldback
e
adv-L
BW-XY (EX era)
SM-SWSH (rainbow era)
SV-? (post-unification)

i find it more helpful to make smaller groupings based on stylistic decisions than try to do larger arbitrary groupings based on years.

granted, my current grouping for the earlier years doesn’t work well for english/yellow borders

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This is very good. The years are somewhat arbitrary for end of vintage and start of modern but make a lot of sense in context.

Never changes. It will always be modern or ultra modern. Sports “modern” era started over 40 years ago in 1980 and ultra modern era started in 2012. Maybe we’ll need a new term of ultra super modern sometime in the future lol

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OP, I’d like to first start off by saying I appreciate your logical argument for why BW being modern is rooted in TCG gameplay changes and set design philosophy. I’ve never thought about it that way, and it makes a lot of sense.

I think as time goes on what is considered “modern” and “vintage” will adjust with the times. These are fluid terms and just because something is considered modern today doesn’t mean it will still be considered modern in 20 years. Nothing is created and instantly “vintage”. When Neo came out, it was “modern”. Then e-series was “modern”. Then Nintendo ex was “modern”. Someone pointed it out above, but it seems like there’s a connection between what you collected as a child, and what you consider “vintage”. Almost as if the human mind needs 10-15 years of separation to consider something “old”.

In 30 years will people really say BW is modern? They probably won’t even say that about SM or SV. What is defined as “modern” will always be (current year) minus x amount of years, but what’s considered vintage will always be 1996 plus x amount of years. These numbers will slide and change over time as the franchise ages.

The modern sports card era is 40 years old, but this is a blanket term, and a reduction of production philosophy that originated 40 years ago. Sports cards produced in the last 5 years look a lot different than cards from the 80s. I think the thorough separation of TCG history into many small eras not only offers a more informative surface-level glimpse into the nuances of each era, but is also true to the reality that the term “modern” doesn’t account for the different defining characteristics that exist within blocks of sets.

If we divide the TCG into blocks based on card appearance, set composition and game mechanics, the blocks would pretty much be in congruence with each generation. But if we separate using print run or card quality, the blocks start getting messy.

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I think there is no one-true-answer to this question.

I agree that WOTC produced cards are definitely vintage. In my opinion, Black & White began modern, and I’ll also agree that lasted until Scarlet & Violet, also due to the silver border change. EX-HGSS could be considered vintage, but I think would more appropriately be described as “mid era.” The cards were still the traditional window frame, no full arts, but not produced by Wizards of the Coast.

I think the addition of full art cards definitely marked the transition to “modern,” and think it’s fair to say that unified borders with Japanese brings us to “contemporary” if not “ultra modern.”

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I think the introduction of 5ban created cards is an easy way to mark the start of modern.

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This is pedantic but antiques traders generally think of items as ‘Vintage’ when they get to about 40 years old. Of course I get why we use the designation in the context of Pokemon, but I’m in my late 20s, and find it hard to accept items I remember acquiring as a kid to be vintage already :sweat_smile:

Anyway, similar to everyone else I think I mentally separate eras into three categories:

Old back and e-Series (Vintage)
ADV to BW (?)
XY onwards (Modern)

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Vintage all the way people are paying ridiculous prices for modern

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I do agree with this when looking at the conversation very briefly and when needing a quick answer. However, when looking in detail, I think there needs to be a more precise divide.

I agree. I did consider detailing production figures for respective sets/eras but decided not to do so at the last minute. I don’t believe it is too much of a stretch to separate BW & XY and Sun and Moon & Sword and Shield due to the significant increase in demand and the number of printed cards. I would still place both in the modern period due to the previously stated changes at their release.

I did not consider the change in the holofoil pattern because I did not know this until now! I also wholly looked past the different levels of ultra rares as this concept is still very new to me, and I forgot it existed; similar to this, it is the same with textured cards. I think BW saw so much innovation and change it is impossible (for me, anyway) not to consider it the beginning of something new.

I think BW will always be where a line is drawn to designate a new block, and SV is also where to draw a new line again. I think, and hope, to see some new ideas and designs over the next few years.

I agree with you; it is better to base periods around style and design change rather than being vague when describing eras using only years to define periods.

Thanks! :grin:

I agree with everything you’ve written, but I wish to highlight this part because it couldn’t be more accurate. I hope I haven’t fumbled the generations and made a mess of it. But, I do think it is too easy to divide by generation, but equally too messy if looking in too much detail. I think everyone will always have a different idea, as has been said above by other members, due to their age and experience.

I agree with this and each of your other statements. As I have written above, you can further divide modern into maybe first- and second-modern before contemporary-modern, and likewise divide new-vintage, perhaps with EX in the first half, and Diamond & Pearl (DP) to HGSS (and Call of Legends) as the other half. However, I, personally, am careful not to simply separate eras by generation alone.

As I am in my mid-20s, I understand! I can recall many times buying EX cards at a local store with weekly pocket money, and I wish I had those cards still! :joy:

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2034: vintage = Evolving Skies and Celebrations :rofl: