What is the "right" amount of diligence when buying a card?

General
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After reading various articles / guides on E4 relating to acceptable imperfections in PSA 10 cards and buyer and seller complaints around card descriptions and refund negotiations on Paypal and Ebay, I realized that I, as a newer collector, don’t know what is acceptable / expected when it comes to performing due diligence on a potential purchase.

If you are a buyer or seller of a card, what level of due diligence from a buyer is acceptable versus overkill?

Does the price and/or value of the card dictate how much effort you invest into providing the potential buyer with adequate information such that they can make an educated decision about whether or not to purchase/invest in your card?

As a seller, do you believe you should point out obvious flaws in the card that you’re selling such that the buyer doesn’t feel misled when he receives his card in person and notices flaws that weren’t disclosed / noticed when the card was originally purchased?

What about cards that are PSA 10 but are older and may have experienced damages that would preclude it from being a PSA 10 today?

How do you feel about returns or partial / full refunds? Are they acceptable if the buyer notices damages that you failed to notice/disclose during negotiations?

Lots to unpack here, but I didn’t find a dedicated thread to this question despite dozens of minor threads throughout the forum, so I’d love to get the community’s thoughts.

Thank you!

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Disagreeing with a grade is not a valid reason to return a graded card, IMO. That said, I always disclose if I feel a graded card is severely overgraded. But sellers aren’t obligated to – after all, the point of third-party grading is to have cards assessed by a neutral arbiter. Ultimately, it’s up to the grading company to accurately grade cards. The accuracy of a third-party’s grade isn’t something sellers should be accountable for.

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If it is an expensive card for my permanent collection, or something I think I might try to cross grade then I study the card closely before bidding. In fact, my favorite part about buying CGC cards is that I can use their site to get high res scans before I buy. That said, If miss something that on me.
I also don’t fee shy about asking for more photos if I need them. If a buyer can’t be bothered I totally get it, but it might mean I pass on the card.

I think, in my experience, people are too casual about opening a paypal dispute for a refund and this sort of thing doesn’t qualify in my opinion

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Like most things in this game, this is not a “yes or no”-situation but a “it depends”-situation.

If the flaws are outside the parameters of the grade, and hard to see in photos then yes, you’re accountable. (example: crease on a 9 or 10, severe print lines on a 10 masked by angles etc)
If they are within the parameters of the grade, then no, you’re not accountable. (example: most print lines, corner nicks, centration)

Some people here brag about pregrading cards a 3, receiving an 8 and then selling their misgraded shite at huge premiums. Selling severely misgraded 10s undisclosed falls into that same category. I’ll never do business with you and I’ll make sure no-one I know do business with you, period. People can use 3rd party grading as a scapegoat all they want, makes no difference to me.

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I could say sellers are literally obligated to do this. “As described” does not sync with “PSA 10” with an undisclosed crease any more than a “brand new Toyota Prius” syncs with an undisclosed melted battery. Sellers don’t get to cherry-pick conceptions born of PSA’s nomenclature about grading standards because that very same nomenclature provides the buyer with equally potent firepower.

That said, the word obligation is of little use here. A relative cluster of legal perspective, interpretation and “decency”, that’s all this is.

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I am firmly of the belief that sellers should never be responsible for mistakes made by a third-party grading company. Now, sellers should provide high-quality scans of any graded card so buyers can determine whether or not the card meets their own personal standards, but beyond that should not be responsible for errors made. As @zorloth pointed out, the point of third-party grading is to take seller subjectivity out of the equation. Especially for larger-volume sellers, buyers should not expect them to go over every graded card with a microscope to find out whether PSA/BGS/CGC screwed up at the job the seller paid them to do.

My personal philosophy when buying graded cards is that I will carefully review the scans, decide whether to bid/buy based on both the grade of the card and any issues I can see, and that’s it. If the card comes in and has a micro-crease or indent and it’s a PSA 9/10, my problem is not with the seller of the card but with PSA.

I never ask for as a buyer, and I would never give as a seller, any form of partial refund for a card. I never ask for full refunds on graded cards. If a buyer is somehow unhappy with a graded card I sold, I may offer a full refund as a courtesy but would then immediately put the buyer on my blocklist.

However, if a seller is consciously aware of serious problems with a graded card (e.g. prominent crease/dent, serious wear) and conceals those problems from the buyer, that’s another story. The problem still lies with PSA/BGS/CGC, but the seller is definitely responsible, and a return/claim is justified.

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I think in general that when it comes to a PSA 10 that you need to keep in mind that PSA as a grading company considers that to be a ‘virtually’ perfect card and not actually a truly perfect card which is right on their website crystal clear. In others word, in 99% of cases a PSA 10 is ‘as good as it gets’ basically and most collectors are happy with that. The next step up would be a BGS or CGC 10 Pristine grade but we’re talking 99.5% mint card compared to 99.9% pretty much. Obviously a market exists for both of these grades (Gem vs Pristine) but it really depends on how much you want to obtain or chase a ‘perfect’ example of any given card. I am personally fairly fussy with my PSA 10s as they can cost a considerable amount of money, but in some cases they are so rare and so low pop for certain cards that you really can’t be too fussy if you want to obtain that certain card in a Gem/perfect 10 grade.

I’ve definitely settled with a couple of cards in my collection that are like under 30 graded copies or so and I’ve learned to look past whatever minor flaws they have because I simply can’t find one anywhere else usually. If it has a minor centering issue or minor corner mark I don’t fret over it because it’s unlikely I’ll find a better copy and it was still good to enough overall to hit that PSA 10 checkbox.

The other thing is, PSA does offer a financial guarantee and all though I’m not super well versed in how this works, I have heard of it working out well for people to get compensated on a possibly misgraded card that they don’t agree with condition-wise. As a seller if dealing with a really fussy or unsatisfied buyer, this would probably be a recommend option that could be provided to them in the situation you can’t resolve it or whatever else. But in general, I feel if you provide as much honest photos and details as you can, you should be fine dealing with most people as this is all you can really do to create as good as possible sale experience and avoid issues. Document each card as good as you can.

As far as older PSA 10s being potentially damaged or unable to be a PSA 10 today, I think that is a very speculative debate with many unknowns. Obviously if a card has been literally damaged somehow, either by physically being damaged in the slab or discolored/faded then yes that would probably cause an issue if cracked out and graded today. However, that’s entirely different than the Old vs New certification number debate that has been posted and discussed many times. I really do believe that the grading standards are still as strong back then as today for 99% of the cards out there. Is it possible some are ‘weaker’ than others? Absolutely, but I’ve seen ‘strong’ and ‘weak’ examples of all grades across all Cert numbers. You have to really judge/review each card yourself and I wouldn’t avoid older PSA slabs because it could be your only chance to get certain cards.

Hope this helps.

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OP, you’ve gotten plenty of responses regarding graded PSA cards, so I’ll give you my perspective on raw card buying/selling etiquette since that’s what I am most familiar with.

The price of the card and the amount of cards determine the effort both the buyer and seller should put in. Effort trends upward with increasing effort and downward with increasing quantity. The more expensive a card, the more effort required. The more cards, the less effort required. The greatest effort is required for the most expensive and least amount of cards. The least effort is required for the least expensive and greatest quantity of cards. This goes for both buying and selling.

Here’s an example. If I’m selling a complete set of, say, Fusion Strike, I’m not going to take pictures of all 284 cards and 217 reverse holos - it simply wouldn’t be worth my time or the buyer’s time to look through every card. Likewise, if I’m the buyer, I’m not going to ask for pictures of all the cards either. That goes for every set, even vintage. If a set is listed as NM, I’m not going to ask for detailed pictures of every card. If I really want extra pictures on a listing for a complete set, I’d ask for pictures of the most expensive cards, the cards I personally care about most or the cards hardest to find in NM condition (usually these go hand in hand). Maybe I’d ask for back pictures page by page if I was truly concerned. My philosophy is, the more I am spending, the more certain I should be that what I’m buying is as advertised.

If I get the set in the mail and a few cards are less than NM, I won’t ask for a refund or return. However, if I asked for specific pictures and damage still isn’t shown, I will ask for a return. I don’t like refunds because then I’m left with a card I don’t want. I’ve bought thousands and thousands of cards online, and I’ve only ever needed to return one. Additionally, if a majority of cards from a NM listing are LP, then I think it’s fair game to contact the seller. All that you both lost is time. You can usually avoid this by training your eye to catch signs of damage in pictures. Is the binder, sleeve, or environment dusty? Is the card sitting raw on a random surface like a table or bed? Is the lighting dull or not reflective off the card’s surface? I almost instinctively avoid those types of listings altogether.

It’s important to note, however, that NM is NOT synonymous with “pack fresh”. NM does allow for imperfections. Surface scratching is probably the best-hidden damage in cards and is what I encounter the most when buying, especially on eBay. However, low amounts of surface scratching is still technically near mint. Buy NM expecting NM and hoping for pack fresh, but if you really want a pack fresh vintage card, you might as well buy it graded 10.

Here’s my take on buying from sites like TCGPlayer and TrollandToad. Never buy anything high value without pictures, and keep in mind the relationship between effort, price and quantity. I buy hundreds of cards at a time from vendors on TCGPlayer without pictures. I only reach out to the seller if the amount of cards less than NM is a substantial portion of either the quantity of cards, or the amount of the order. For example, if I order 100 cards in NM and 10 arrive LP, I’m not going to complain. If 25 are LP, I might contact the seller. If 50 are LP, I’m definitely contacting the seller. Alternatively if my order is $13, and one $10 card is damaged, I’m going to contact the seller. But if a $1 card in a $13 order is damaged, I’m not going to say anything.

Ultimately, you have to judge what is and isn’t worth your time and the seller’s time to fix. If you can prevent a situation as a seller, do it. If you can avoid a situation as a buyer, do it. But sometimes there is no preventing or avoiding. Sometimes, when you order almost an entire set of SM Ultra Prism from vendors on TCGPlayer, half the cards arrive played or damaged simply because they were stored improperly at the TCGPlayer Warehouse. So you have to reach out and ask things to be set right.

ALWAYS be polite and NEVER accusatory! Most people want to sell without a hitch and not have to deal with people or problems directly. However, the reality of selling online means you open yourself up to that risk. Only push for a refund or return if the money is truly that important - in which case, you should probably also look at your own life choices to determine why you spent that valuable money on cardboard. Then change your choices so you don’t spend money much needed on cardboard in the future…but I digress. Ebay has their “product not as described” button to protect buyers against malicious and even ignorant sellers. Use it, but don’t abuse it. Same thing with TCGPlayer and most online marketplaces.

My thoughts were kind of all over the place here, but hopefully this helps you somewhat, OP.

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Every card will have imperfections if you look close enough with the right tools. The question is, how “picky” are you as a buyer? Personally, a single isolated imperfection doesn’t bother me at all, and I have some 10s with minor damage, including my PSA 10 JP base Zard.

As a seller (I only sell graded) I will capture the condition as best I can. People don’t expect you to advertise the card’s faults, but do capture them in an honest and transparent way. The grade helps both the buyer and seller, so just be transparent and you shouldn’t really have any problems